Florida: HB 89 – Threatened Use of Force (Update)

The new amended version of the bill is out and I think the next step is voting on it.  But don’t take my word for it as I am not close to an amateur of this stuff. The vote was YEAS 93, NAYS 24 on Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:35 PM. Next week goes to the senate for voting.

So far and reading with Non-Lawyer eyes: Twice in the bill the words “stand his or her ground ” appear.  Three times the wording “place where he or she has a right to be”. So pretty much there is no change to SYG that I can see. I did read a clarification

A person who uses or  threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

I think it better defines the law and gets rid of a grey area that a prosecutor may have used to screw with people such as “Well, he was double parked and that is breaking the law” or some stupid crap like that.

Then “using or threatening to use” is mentioned 11 time in several combinations of defensive, deadly and non-deadly  force. I am guessing the legislators are making clear that threatening somebody with the ability/opportunity/jeopardy to do bad things to you in no longer a crime just because you said so and feel like screwing the life of somebody who refused to be a victim.

Also intact appears to be immunity from Criminal or Civil Action by the person, personal representative, or heirs of the person against whom the force was used or threatened.  The whole thing is new so it seems it is more protection for the Citizen.

Then we have:

A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures  for investigating the use or threatened use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the  person for using or threatening to use force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used or threatened was unlawful.

This was not prohibited before as far as I recall, but I guess the LEOs and DAs needed it in writing.

The wording “imminent commission of a forcible felony” also remain associated with use or threat of use of Deadly Force:
776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

There is more stuff, but you have the link and you can go ahead and examine it. Again I am reading through no-lawyers eyes, but I really don’t see anything bad in the bill….. so we are paging Andrew Branca to tell me where I am wrong 🙂

Assault with a Deadly… Tattoo?


NORRIDGEWOCK — Michael Smith went outside shirtless after being awakened Tuesday morning, yelling at a tree removal company to get off his property.

The tattoo of a pistol on his stomach was mistaken for a real firearm by employees of Lucas Tree Experts after, according to Smith, workers woke him up while they were cutting wood for Central Maine Power Co. The workers called police.
Tree workers called police earlier after they mistook a pistol tattoo on Smith’s stomach for a real firearm.

The workers thought they saw a gun in his waistband and called police.

Smith, who’d gone back to bed, was awakened again minutes later — this time by Maine State Police at his front door, backed up by a group of troopers with assault rifles in his driveway. They were asking him via a megaphone to come out of his house.

Smith did have a gun. It was tattooed on his stomach.

via Norridgewock man with gun tattoo wakes up to armed police | The Morning Sentinel, Waterville, ME.

So it is not the nicest of tattoos, but I have seen worse.  But what caught my attention is that the Tree Cutting crews by law have the right to enter anybody’s property without the courtesy of a simple knock at the door to notify the home owner:

Smith, who works nights, said he was still asleep and was surprised to see a crew of workers from Lucas Tree Experts preparing to saw a number of trees around some power lines on his property…..Rice said that, in general, if a customer is unhappy with the work being done, tree crews are supposed to stop work, leave the area and call CMP. State law says that because such work is necessary to ensure the quality of electric service, the company is not required to give notice to customers.

Nice. [/sarcasm]

Airsoft is the weapon of the Counter Revolution

El gobernador del estado Aragua, Tareck El Aissami, anunció la captura de un ciudadano de origen chino (nacionalizado) en el urbanismo Calicanto, Maracay. “Vean lo que le encontramos en su casa”, dijo, mientras mostraban videos con una serie de fusiles, presuntamente encontrados en la casa del ciudadano y que el gobernador precisó “se tratan de armas para practicar airsoft”.

(The governor of Aragua state, Tarek El Aissami, announced the arrest of a citizen of Chinese origin (nationalized) in the Calicanto neighborhood, Maracay. “Look what I found at home,” he said, while showing a series of videos with guns allegedly found at the home of the citizen and the governor said “they are  airsoft weapons to practice.”

via Armas incautadas a ciudadano de origen chino – Protestas en Venezuela.

When all was said and done, they only found a real shotgun and a real pistol.  And the guy is going to prison for what is in the next pic:

It is now illegal in Venezuela to own more than 50 rounds of ammunition per year.  The guy’s “ganso” is cooked.

Moms want a Doctor trained in Cartoonland to be Surgeon General

I had already covered the idiocy of nominating Dr. Vivek Murthy as Surgeon General, but since today appears to be the day the Senate gets on the nomination thing, Shannon and Assorted wives of MAIG are raising hell.

Moms Demand Surgeon General


Nothing new here, but what caught my attention is one of the nuttier than usual comments in their Facebook page:

Dawn Herman Our doctors should have the right to know there are guns in are homes, just like they can ask about mental issues in the family.

Wait what? I must have missed that one in the Bill Of Rights.  The depth of idiocy running through the veins of these Moms is plain scary.  Just because they dress in a pretty white lab coat and have a Dr. prefixing their names does not give them the right to squat regarding my household or my family. And specially not a group that kill more people every year in the US than wars and just because they can’t seem to remember to wash their hands.

Floridians Still Likes Stand Your Ground. And apparently a lot.

Florida continues to back its “Stand Your Ground” law according to a poll from the University of North Florida (UNF) released on Monday.

The poll finds more than 60 percent of those surveyed support “Stand Your Ground” with 41 percent saying they strongly support it and 21 percent somewhat support it. Less than a quarter–22 percent–strongly oppose the law while 7 percent somewhat oppose it.

The poll of 507 registered voters in Florida was taken from March 6-March 16 and had a margin of error of +/- 4.35 percent.

via New poll shows Florida backs ‘Stand Your Ground’ law | Sunshine State News.

You think that with the volume of propaganda and political pressure brought to bear on the whole state, SYG would be as hated as stale guava pastries or long lines at DisneyWorld. Even in the state that some enjoy calling Floriduh! we understand that the idea of giving an attacker first dibs to our blood supply is a very stupid concept.


CSGV, lemme Google that for you.



If Idaho teachers are so dumb that they cannot access a computer and search for the Idaho Statutes, not only they shouldn’t be allowed near a gun but fired for incompetents incompetence.

But since apparently teachers are having gladiator fights in their lounge (at least according to the Miami Herald) and may be too busy to actually do any reasearch, so I give you Title 18, Chapter 40 of the Idaho Statutes regarding Justifiable Homicide. I’ll leave the rest as homework.

And Just could not finish without sharing some of the comments:

Linda Rodimon I am serious..did someone spray an idiot bug around? i am already a bit depressed, and feel lost in this crazy country that, as a kid, i was taught
From the average comments of the followers of CSGV, I would answer YES!)

Joel Mielke Shoot first, pop quiz later.
First time somebody says that Joel! Good work! (not)

Terri Brimm I’d like to know where the line will be drawn on this one. Can the professor shoot a student that is sleeping or texting in class? How about the ones who arrive late and disrupt the lecture? Can the professor shoot both the lazy student and the mom who is constantly calling to ask for extensions for their child (I know a few college professors and this is a huge complaint amongst them! It’s college folks, let your kiddo grow up and take responsibility for their actions)? We are devolving into Somalia.
Somebody needs to increase her anti-depressant meds

Java Winters Out-of-context. The prof was being snarky and making a point.
You are gonna confuse them with facts, don’t.

Bradley Stabler After they ask the same question, the answer to which is clearly indicated on the syllabus of which they have both paper and electronic copies, for the third time.

Deborah Prust Adams Brilliantly sarcastic letter to the editor. With your graphic, I’m afraid people may think this question is serious. So many won’t read any further.
I am amazed they can read at all

Mark Manchak How awful. Soon Idaho will experience the same types of bloodbaths we’ve seen on Utah and Colorado campuses since they permitted permit-holders to carry on campus.
Troll Alert… and well-played Mark. Pity your post will be deleted soon.

Linda Rodimon I was rambling…well you get how i feel and how sick I think things are..
you are par for the course dear, don’t fret.


Because Tam asked….

Mistress Tam asked an interesting question:

How many of those people do you think read either gun blogs or anti-gun blogs?

She was referring to a previous post where I mentioned that what we do is not trying to convince the True Believer in Anti Gun causes but the ones that might have not so defined feelings one way or the other or have not made a decision yet.

Let me start with my particular case: Yes, but I am not fooling myself about the cause or the numbers. I imagine that somebody interested in knowing about Gun Free Zones may Google the term and my blog comes up first most of the time. So by way of search logarithm, they may end up landing here. Does it make a difference? I would like to think so, but that is just a wish.

Gun Blogs are encyclopedias of Gun Stuff. The political ones serve the purpose of concentrating info about Gun Rights, what has happened before, what is going on and where we might be going. We are also repeater stations where the author may share something he saw somewhere and thinks his readers may find interesting or useful. Also the author may get his knowledge corrected (Lord knows it happens enough in this URL) from things he gets wrong.

And at best, we occupy shelf space. The more of us are out there, the more results mentioning our side of things appear in the webs and the less space the opposition has. If anything is a direct metric showing which side has the grassroots and who is the one manufacturing outrage.  In a world where little by little people are gathering their information not from the Boob Tube or the Local Bird Cage Liner but their favorite electronic device, to have an awesome presence is important.

My post Moms Demand Action: Shannon Watts, The Plastic Gardener, has been accessed over 16,500 times and I have seen it copied and passed about in may forums and even almighty Reddit. Was it used last week in Indiana where Shannon Watts got her lying butt spanked by a legislator? I don’t know but I will let my ego run with it ’cause the poor fella needs petting once in a while.

And that is all we can aspire to: that what we do gets used for good and hope, maybe, for some linky-love.

And that the Koch Brothers finally get around to fulfill the anti-gun conspiracy and put us in their payrolls. I can use some extra cash.