We must bow to the Government because, you know, they are the Government. Don’t be an insurrectionist! The article by Max Fisher talks about a research he did showing that when civilians take up arms, the likelihood of triumph goes down. But there is a money quote that gets lost in the shuffle and in the minds of those who suck up to the state:
It’s really, really difficult to overstate the importance of the military in moments of mass popular protest or uprising: ultimately, they have the monopoly on force, and they can decide the outcome if they want to.
And in many countries with strict gun control and a populace that might be facing a 50 – 100 armed personnel against one armed civilian, I believe the outcome would not be a nice one. But in a country where armed civilians outpace military and LEO by 26 to one, a country where the Monopoly on Force (killing) does not exist, the conclusion by Mr. Fisher simply does not hold a lot of ground nor is safe to assume by a government with dictatorial intentions. And that is assuming the LEOs and Military would stay on the side of a corrupt government.
American Exceptionalism is more than just a slogan. Some may want to remember that.
Hi Miguel,
I was listening to public radio on my icey drive to work this morning and mention was made in the compromise agreement that the Ukrainian President signed was the requirement that guns in the possession of the protesters must be turned in. And my first thought was that many will say not bloody likely and keep them for insurance.
By the sounds of things, my guess is that these firearms were once owned by the government. Considering the loss of life on the part of the protesters, I’m thinking tough on the government.
I know it makes you feel good and it appeals to most of your readers, but implying that a weekend shooter with a Glock, which if we’re honest is many of us, has a chance against the resources and training of the military is a little funny. Tell me how you take down that Apache, Miguel. LOL.
I like coming by here every now and then. It’s good for the soul. 🙂
Hi Bryan,
Perhaps we should look at how well the Taliban has faired against modern militaries. They drove the soviet army out of the country, albeit with our assistance.
Then we invaded, spent longer here and are now in the process of leaving with not much sign of any conclusive victory. In fact, I’m guessing that shortly after we leave that the country will either have a regime change, or will degenerate into the religious violence we are seeing frequently happening in Iraq.
Let’s look at the Ukraine, you suppose they might have a helicopter or tank or two? In fact, their agreement to make changes to the constitution and to hold new elections seem to validate the potential for success against repressive governments.
An Apache requires a pilot, mechanics, fuel, and armaments.
Pilots and mechanics are human. Fuel and armaments have to be transported. Both are susceptible to an attack and fatigue, especially if your base of operations is located behind enemy lines(which, in case of an uprising, they are.) And that’s assuming that your human element is unquestioningly loyal.(Which, admittedly, most Democrats are)
Anecdotal evidence suggests that to quell a civil uprising requires between FIVE and TEN police or soldiers to quell ONE insurgent. And we outnumber them.
Even helicopters need to land sometime. Someone has to get out of the tank to refuel it, check the tracks, and eliminate bodily wastes. Several someones on the ground repair the helicopter and drive to the storeroom to get parts and ammo. They are not invulnerable.
The police in the US do not live separated from society in barracks. The deputy sheriff lives a few doors down, an FBI agent is two blocks over.
If it drops in the pot, the insurrectionists might not be able to get to the Generals, Police Chiefs or President directly. But the chiefs might run out of braves very quickly, either through defection or just staying home. Or someone with a knife or a .22 stops them from reporting to work to suppress the dissent.
It would be ugly, but so was Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. So are Syria, Venezuela and Ukraine TODAY.
“Tell me how you take down that Apache, Miguel.”
You are asking the wrong question. The question is: How do I make the Apache useless against the(movement/protest/revolution/etc)?
Now, we are talking about US Military Action against its Citizens on US soil/Urban environment…
Brother, the possibilities are endless….
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Those who ask questions like that are akin to the redcoats in the 1770’s; still thinking of battle in terms of direct engagement…marching in regimented units across an open battlefield and firing in volleys, when the enemy was taking cover and making aimed shots at individual targets.
As I have said many times: you don’t need to DESTROY a tank (Apache) to remove it from the fight.
And I’m always amused by people who are willing to live under any government, no matter how oppressive. Seriously, our Government has nuclear weapons…and you’ll just roll over and say, “I’ll do whatever you please” if our Government uses a nuke on one of our own cities? If /that/ isn’t a just reason for taking up arms against our own government, I don’t know what is! And this is true, even if the fight is completely pointless.
(Incidentally, the Warsaw Uprising started with a handful of pistols. Not “Glocks”, because there weren’t any around then…but those Warsaw rebels were taking on one of the best-armed militaries of the world! Yet they seemed to manage ok, given the circumstances…)
Of course, there’s another reason I find your comment funny: you are assuming that there’s going to be an army, or even a Federal government, to fight. Sometimes societies collapse, and there’s no longer any army to fight against. Sometimes, soldiers defect to the drug lords, and what’s left of the army is unwilling to get involved.
And all this is assuming that the average soldier is a better shot than the average citizen taking up arms…
I have a post about the Uprising and what it did.
https://gunfreezone.net/index.php/2013/01/14/those-who-fail-to-understand-history/
Most of the soldiers I’ve had conversation with are just good enough to not fail out of basic marksmanship.
How on earth did the US Military manage to loose in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan? We had Apaches for Gods sake.
Lose?
Two observations.
1: While I don’t really know what’s going on in the Ukraine, what I’ve gathered is that their government are largely seen as the “bad guys” in this situation. It appears CSGV is supporting the Ukrainian government with that statement.
2: Correlation does not imply causality. Could it be that the reverse is true? That is, the more bleak a situation gets, the more likely protesters are to take up arms?
Apache bring down ? _ I believe in Somalia is was rocket propelled grenatde. Has anyone thought of a bolo round made of steel cable from a mortar round ? Homemade EASY! One down Apache at low elevations.!
I personally knew a guy who participated in the uprisings in Romania. Ladd and Co. should ask Nicolae Ceaușescu how taking up arms works for the people.
I am convinced that the real reason that Ladd and Pals oppose guns in our hands is that they know that if they don’t get them out now, they will end up getting shot with them later. They know that they will always be on the side of the oppressors, so they don’t want potential victims to be armed.
And Bryan? It’s easy. You shoot anyone who takes up arms against us. Then you shoot anyone who actively assists those who’ve taken up arms. Of course, those Apache drivers, along with basically all of their support crew are already on our side.
It makes me wonder about you if you believe that large numbers of our military, drawn from our sons and daughters (and not YOUR sons and daughters) will ever take up arms against us. The military is largely middle and working class rural, conservative, and religious. They are not going to shoot their own parents. And since we have geographically mixed units, with people from all over America in each platoon, someone is always going to have local contacts or friends of friends in a given area. Guess that puts paid to your hope of using the military against us, huh?
Want to destroy an Apache or an M1 tank? Just wait for the crew to take a shit. Shoot them while they squat.
@Timmeehh: And then, HEY LOOK! FREE HELICOPTER! I always wanted one of these!
[…] Go read this article… […]
[…] Remember, our opponents in the gun control movement believe you have an obligation to obey. You need to sit back and take whatever your government dishes out. Comply citizen! […]