I am still trying to figure out why both camps have to be mutually exclusive when they are not even in the same zip code of argument.
Is the Kung Flu killing people? Yes it is. Not in the numbers that some predicted, not even close, but half a million is nothing to sneeze at. So, if a vaccine is developed that can save people, hell yes, it has my approval.
On the other hand, is the vaccine harming/killing people? The answer again is yes and again not in the numbers some people are trying to panicky banter about. Newsflash: All vaccines and medications will have a small percentage of people affected or killed. Penicillin was the great savior of humanity, the true Magic Bullet, yet to this day, you will be asked by a medical personnel taking your history if you are allergic to it because some folks, as miniscule minority, will go into anaphylactic shock and die if they get penicillin.
Fernando was a friend of mine, about the same age and with a streak for being a humorous asshole. Like many kids in our generation, he was given a battery of available vaccines for sicknesses that 20 or 30 years earlier were decimating boys and girls. We both had the polio vaccine and whereas I had no issues, he actually developed the sickness and was confined for the rest of his life to a wheelchair.
Life does not come with a 100% guarantee or your reincarnation back. Shit Happens. And if you are a member of the Gun Culture, I should not need to explain this to you.
Now both sides grow up and quit fussing about useless shit.
I will not take the current “vaccine”, and when asked about it, will tell you why not. The biggest reason is the lie calling it a “vaccine” when it is actually an experimental pre-treatment. It does not prevent infection or spread, it only prevents the recipient from getting a severe case. It stuns me how ill informed some are when they find out all my reasons. My thinking is; if you want the jab, get it. It you have comorbidities, you probably should get it. But I draw the line when you think I or anyone should be forced to get it.
Glypto, that’s utter bullshit. Stop raving about stuff you understand nothing about.
For those who want to know why people like me are harping about possible long term adverse side effects of the current experimental (see vaccination slip that one is required to sign) Covid 19 vaccines on emergency authorization, read the Nature review below.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5
Some of the short term side effects are horrible, but they are known, despite the state propaganda machine. Go to VAERS, multiply by 100 (there is a study providing this multiplier), get informed.
The problem is with long term side effects, not reflected in short trials. Moreover, they already unblinded the trials, which is strange and not done. The long term adverse effects are known for coronaviruses. They also have been predicted from mechanism of action if Covid 19 and the spike part used in the current vaccines. The nature paper above covers only some of them, the most pernicious.
There is a reason why vaccine trials last years, sometimes decade.
As long as vaccines are voluntary and do not affect one’s ability to make a living (current or future, I. E. School), I do not give a hoot what other people are injecting themselves with. The info is out there. Hard to find, but out there.
But the current mandated vaccination for business air travel or, as in my primary physician case, employment, is fascism.
I agree with Glypto. There are reasons both for and against receiving this treatment, as there are for all treatments. It should be up to each individual what substances that they want to put into their bodies.
The funny part of all of this is that the party that screams “Keep your laws off my body” is the same party that wants the COVID vaccine to be mandatory.
The interesting question isn’t whether people died after taking the vaccine. Of course they did, for the simple reason that people die every day.
The correct question is “what is the excess mortality”.
Given that we heard nothing about this prior to January 20th, the answer to that question clearly is “very low”.
Read about pathogen enhancement and antibody dependent enhancement. Long term side effects not assessed in any clinical trials of current Covid 19 vaccines.
This is not theoretical risk. Vaccines, including coronavirus ones, have been pulled off the market in the past because of ADE.
There is a good Nature review on the topic.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5
If people want to take experimental vaccine or treatment on emergency authorization, their body their choice.
But if they are made to take it to be able to earn their living or to go to school, this is fascism.
And when those vaccine manufacturers are no longer exempt from any sort of liability in/around 2024 and they have received their full FDA approval and not just an EUA, I’ll consider them.
Until then, someone else can have mine when my turn comes around. I’ll stick to proper diet, not drinking myself stupid like Otis the town drunk, supplementation, getting out in the sun, and hitting the gym 5-6 times/week.
The way I see it, the EUA merely indicates the company hasn’t gone through every last one of the anti-progress bureaucratic hurdles inflicted by the FDA. Sure you can wait for full approval, but is there any good reason to believe that has a real world — as opposed to Washington swamp — meaning?
“…but half a million is nothing to sneeze at. …”
Yes, half a million people who died in 2020 tested positive for the virus. However, a very large percentage of those people would have died anyway. The CCP virus was likely NOT the primary cause of death.
As to the vaccine, take it or do not take it. It should be an individual’s call, not the governments. Same with wearing a mask, or choosing to dine in.
What I find most egregious is the people who are trying to panic people about the vaccine, when in fact the adverse effects (from what I have seen) are no worse than any other drug out there. Even aspirin can be deadly to some.
So, why panic people? Perhaps because it provides a bit of an emotional rush to the panic inducer. Perhaps because it sells newspapers. Perhaps because people like to talk about how horrible the world is more than they like to talk about the good bits.
“. . . [A] very large percentage . . . would have died anyway.” I have my mom’s death certificate in front of me right now. It lists her COD as COVID-19 first. It also lists COPD and dementia. (She was 92.) She was in fact dying anyway, but COVID pushed her over the edge. Does that make it a proximate COD, since it hurried along the inevitable? You tell me. I honestly don’t know.
I’ve noticed some reporters using the phrase “died with COVID”. That captures the ambiguity well, though I’ve also noticed that it doesn’t really get explained.
An article a month or two ago mentioned “excess mortality”. If you look at the mortality stats for various countries, the USA among them, you can definitely see a blip in mortality. I’m pretty sure the size of that blip is smaller than the quoted number of COVID deaths, which is the point being made here. I didn’t save or remember the actual numbers; a vague memory says the excess mortality was a substantial fraction of the listed COVID death numbers, perhaps half or 2/3 or thereabouts. So “a very large percentage … would have died anyway” is not accurate, at least not if my memory of the numbers is right. Saying “a non-trivial fraction … would have died anyway” would be correct.
“I’m pretty sure the size of that blip is smaller than the quoted number of COVID deaths, which is the point being made here.”
Exactly
The US has about 2.7M to 2.9M deaths from all causes every year. For a population of about 330M that represents about 0.8 to 0.9% of the population should be expected to die in any year.
The 2020 estimate (est. because I do not think the official numbers from November and December are included in the number yet) is about 3.1M deaths for all causes. Higher than expected, but it may drop when the estimated deaths from COVID over the holidays turn out to be WAY lower then estimated.
And, let’s not forget, there are documented examples of motorcycle accident deaths, and gang related murders being listed as COVID deaths solely because they tested positive for the virus.
1811:
Very sorry to hear about your Mom. My sincerest condolences. No words can fill the gap you now have in your life.
And, I have no answer to your question. I wish I did. If my folks were still with us, they would be about 92 now. They passed when they were 79 (Mom) and 85 (Dad). Both of them exceeded the average expected lifespan for their generation. Neither of them were in the best of health either. It was not a surprise when they passed away because of their health and age.
In any given year, those above the age of 80 make up the bulk of the deaths. Your Mom may not have made it past this pandemic, even if she never tested positive for the virus. Only her doctor can say for sure.
Thank you for your kind words. She tested positive for COVID about a week before she passed away. You’re right, I miss her every day. And please accept my condolences for the loss of your parents, for the same reason.
I have gotten the first dose of the Moderna vaccine.
I am in my early 60’s. I think it is worth the risk to me.
My older siblings have all gotten vaccinated.
My parents are in their late 80’s. It is definitely worth the risk to them.
A nephew had the Chinese COVID virus last Spring. Mid thirties, healthy, no comorbidities, he had fevers, coughs, and pneumonia for several weeks, and was weak, fatigued, and miserable from about Valentines Day until Memorial Day. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.
I have heard some people do feel feverish and wrung out after their second dose of the vaccine. Be aware of that.
Miguel, re your friend Fernando; it makes me wonder if that guy in our class who was in a wheelchair in the fifth grade didn’t have a similar reaction to polio. No one that I knew ever was crass enough to ask him how he got into the wheel chair so who knows. Your article is spot on of course. As for me, I don’t bother with the flu vaccine and the flu is more likely to be dangerous to me. Friends are talking about not being allowed to fly or cross state lines without it. That’s a reason NOT to get it from my point of view.