I was shocked to see several people in our culture trying to either dismiss or justify the actions of Virginia’s Attorney General Mark R. Herring eliminating reciprocity with 25 states. The chant is “But those states do not ‘meet the standards’ that Virginia imposes to their citizens, so he has a point.”
Ladies and gentleman, that is not the reason, that is the excuse to shut down reciprocity and hope to make Virginians with gun permits, pariahs among CWP states by waiting for the banned states to respond in kind. No, it was not about you after all. This is the Democrat machine punishing gun owners in Virginia.
And also what Bloomberg is thinking (Yes, I kinda detect his hairy hand behind this crap) is that other states try to pull the same stunt and disintegrate the Reciprocity movement across the nation. It was never about the law or keeping the commonwealth safe, otherwise they would have produced the numbers showing the waves of crime brought upon residents of other states passing or visiting Virginia. But those numbers are not available because simply they do not exist at best or show how well-behaved we are at worst.
So we need to do two things: If you live in one of the 25 banned states, contact your State’s Attorney general and demand that Virginian Citizens with carry permits be allowed to carry in your state. Second, get back on the National Reciprocity law, plain Jane, no additives: If you have a permit to carry in your state,you are allowed to carry nationwide. And that is it. Period.
And stop making excuses for the misdeeds of the Opposition. You cannot give the benefit of the doubt to those who have shown very clearly they want our rights destroyed. You can be polite, just don’t be stupid.
Mission accomplished here in Ohio.
OH honors any visitor permit.
I have the answer. Stop begging permission! Free men DO NOT beg permission from from their Masters!
Same challenge I issued before: Open Carry in Washington DC and then take it all the way to the Supreme Court. Let us know what happens.
Till then, we have to do it the long hard way.
The AG signed his political death wish. Y’alls know we ain’t taking this lying down.
“But those states do not ‘meet the standards’ that Virginia imposes to their citizens, so he has a point.”
Besides that argument is a *crock*.
Just look at the states that the AG has said meet standards and then the ones that don’t.
I’ve also talked with a North Carolina CCW instructor and he says that NC’s requirements are more strict.
So not only is this a poor excuse to accept, but it is,once again, another gun controller lie.
Another Dem gun banner… He ‘won’ by 165 votes thanks to Bloomie… I’m glad I’m outta there!
Virginia provides for an non-resident permit. A good way to protest would be to request their non-resident application package here: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_NonresidentConcealed.shtm
Even those who will never get the license should request the package. Each package is going to cost them a few dollars in postage and labor. Make separate requests for each of your family members. If just 5% of CCW licenses in other states requested the package, it would cost Virginia a few million dollars.
“790.015 Nonresidents who are United States citizens and hold a concealed weapons license in another state; reciprocity…… This section applies only to nonresident concealed weapon or concealed firearm licenseholders from states that honor Florida concealed weapon or concealed firearm licenses.”
Pam Bondi may not have the legal ability to grant Va CCL holders reciprocity. They may have to get a Fla out of state CCL like Don suggests that we do.
You might be right. Then we need to change the law and accept CWP from every state. Tall order, but we can give it a shot.
Miguel,
You are right: bloomberg financed these current residents in Richmond.
— I just had a thought: Virginia is an open carry state….. Google to find out the latest regs, and welcome to our Commonwealth!
Oh yeah — I wanted to comment to all of those people who said that the Attorney General has a point: The Bill of Rights is NOT a list of suggestions!
but, as Miguel wisely says, we have to take this long, hard road a step at a time.
Miguel, please forgive me if this is too long a post. I have copied below a message to all affected states from the Virginia Citizens Defense League:
1) THOUGHTS FOR OUR FELLOW OUT-OF-STATE CHP HOLDERS
First, I’d like to offer an apology to our fellow CHP holders from the 25 states that are about to lose recognition on February 1st.
All of you who have visited Virginia over the years have been exemplary and have not caused any problems within the Commonwealth.
This is NOT about you or anything you have done that was wrong.
It’s about our Governor, Terry McAuliffe, and our Attorney General, Mark Herring, who were both elected by a very small margin, and are a great embarrassment to Virginians. Neither of these individuals are reflective of the attitudes toward liberty and freedom and the values that we cherish here in Virginia. In fact, both have been referred to as “lawless” by some of our own General Assembly members, many of who are going to work to fix the situation we find ourselves in.
Here in the Old Dominion, the anger of gun owners at what our Attorney General has done is palpable, and I cannot remember anything to match it. Herring and McAuliffe have endangered your lives when you travel here and our lives when we travel outside of Virginia. SIX MILLION CHP holders in half the country are affected!
And all this treachery was done as political payback to Michael Bloomberg for campaign contributions.
VCDL will be working to fix this problem from various angles and we will be trying to do so as expeditiously as possible. We want Virginia to be a welcoming state again for our fellow gun owners. We ultimately want to recognize ALL out-of-state permits.
Sadly, we understand if you decide you can’t visit us until we can honor your permits. I’d be a hypocrite if I said I would do so if the tables were turned.
HOWEVER, you do have a few options if you still want to come visit us:
1. Open carry is legal in Virginia – no permit required and you can open carry in most places in Virginia. Our police don’t bat an eye. VCDL’s website has a list of the places that you cannot carry. And, here’s another good reason to open carry: McAuliffe and Herring HATE open carry. But, hey, it was THEIR brilliant idea to prohibit concealed carry, so they will have no choice but to get used to a whole lot more people open carrying in Virginia! 😉
2. You can have a LOADED handgun in a CLOSED, but not necessarily locked, compartment or container in a vehicle. That includes a glovebox, console, and trunk as long as the compartment or container has some kind of latch. Optionally the loaded handgun can be in plain sight, on the seat or on the dashboard. Again, if concealed it MUST be in a compartment or container and nowhere else. Upon exiting the vehicle, the loaded handgun can be holstered and carried in plain view or you can unload the gun and put it in a carrying case.
3. You can get a Utah non-resident concealed handgun permit or you can get a Virginia non-resident concealed handgun permit. For the money and the fact that Virginia’s permit has now been degraded by the Attorney General, I’d go for the Utah permit.
Whatever you do, please don’t judge our great Commonwealth based on our current Governor and Attorney General.
2) WHAT CAN BE DONE?
VCDL is working to fix “Herring’s Folly” from several angles.
a) A bill on VCDL’s behalf has been introduced by Delegate Lee Ware and will be considered by the General Assembly, which convenes on January 14th (Lobby Day is on the 18th, BTW). This bill will change Virginia law to honor the CHPs from ALL states! Expect a matching bill to come from the Senate.
Yes, McAuliffe will probably veto it, but with your help, we will work to get as large a majority as possible to pass it. More on this in future legislative updates in January.
In the meantime, here is a link to the bill:
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?161+ful+HB12
b) The General Assembly’s “Power of the Purse” can be used in different ways to help with this battle
c) We can possibly use the courts to override Herring and McAuliffe’s actions
d) There is a petition you can sign. Yes, Herring will ignore it, but it will make a great PR item, when I say something like, “X thousand of people signed a petition against Herring’s actions.” 7,283 have signed it so far and you guys are just learning about it! Here is the link:
http://tinyurl.com/pajlh9x
d) Since Herring is making our lives miserable, we can return the favor. More on this next week. Oh, and Herring is going to run for Attorney General again in 2017. I’ll bet he’ll be surprised at just how good our memories can be!
3) DON’T FORGET TO KEEP PUSHING PEOPLE YOU KNOW TO COMMENT ON MCAULIFFE’S STATE-AGENCY BAN
As of 8 PM on December 23rd, 2,818 comments have been posted. All but a handful, if that many, are against McAuliffe’s gun ban!
That’s nice, but we can do better. Get this link into the hands of others you know and get them to leave a comments opposing the ban. If you haven’t commented yet, now is a great time to do so. Click on the link and then click on “Enter a comment” to get started:
http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/L/Comments.cfm?StageID=7379
Here’s an article on McAuliffe’s state-agency gun ban and VCDL:
http://bearingdrift.com/2015/12/23/abc-goes-gun-free-before-holidays-privatization-resurrected-as-vcdl-fights/
or
http://tinyurl.com/gpmf2nu
Done. Will bring this up with a few others I know have CCW’s.
Thanks, Shawn !
I’ve seen it said (but don’t know for sure) that VA law dictates the Attorney General “shall” (meaning he doesn’t have a choice) enter into reciprocity agreements with AGs whose state’s CHL/CHP/CCW regulations are similar. I assume VA law also says that if those states’ regulations change, the Attorney General has the authority to re-evaluate reciprocity.
So my question is: Which of those 25 states have substantially changed their concealed-carry regulations, prompting the VA AG to review reciprocity?
And as a follow-up: If few or none of them have, what authority does the VA AG have that allows him to unilaterally cancel a (presumably) binding agreement with the other state AGs?
Reciprocity, as it currently stands, should be viewed in the same light as a contract. A legal agreement. Only by violating the terms of the contract (in this case, changing your home state’s CCW regs) can the contract be rendered null and void. It must stand otherwise, lest contract law suddenly get turned on its head and become meaningless.
Just my $0.02.
CCW “reciprocity” is probably works by each State deciding for itself which State permits it will accept and which it will not accept. Reciprocity is almost certainly not a set of agreements between States. Why do I say this? Because the Constitution generally forbids them:
Art. I, sec. 10
“No State shall, without the Consent of Congress…enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State…”
There is certainly no “consent of Congress” to authorize actual reciprocity “agreements” between the various States. IF such agreements exist, they’re unconstitutional for lack of Congressional consent. This is why I think reciprocity is almost certainly the work of individual States, each acting unilaterally. Actual “reciprocity agreements” would mean that if one State decided to stop accepting another State’s permits, the second State would have no choice but to stop accepting the first State’s permits because the first State has abrogated the “reciprocity.” If the second State doesn’t do this as a matter of course, then “reciprocity” wasn’t part of the system in the first place. And this is how I think the system actually works. If anyone has any information to the contrary, I’d be interested in seeing it.
Dave,
The … in your quote is a bit misleading. The actual wording of Article 1, Section 10 provides a very specific list of prohibited activities, and the section you snipped from, the third paragraph, specifically refers to war powers. It is not a general prohibition on any sorts of agreements between states.
“No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.”
[…] Miguel is hoping that people will write their AGs and tell them not to revoke recognition of Virgini…. I’m of two minds on that, part of my agrees, but part recognizes some gun owners won’t get off their asses and wake up unless they are made to feel some pain. […]
The governor wants to play fuck fuck? The house of burgess will play fuck fuck.
http://www.heraldcourier.com/news/va-tightens-concealed-gun-permit-rules-drawing-ire-of-lawmakers/article_3b894758-b899-5f6e-9606-5d44d08b7692.html#.VnrJcsEQAiM.facebook
I have questions that I’ve not had answered by anyone. Here they are:
1. What rule, principle, or law causes each State to recognize the marriages performed in every other State, and the driver licenses issued by every other State?
2. Is it the “full faith and credit” clause of the Constitution?
3. Whether it is, or is not, why doesn’t the same rule, law, or principle apply to concealed carry permits?
Or, conversely;
4. By what principle, rule, or law can a State refuse to recognize the concealed carry permits issued by any other State, and
5. If such a rule, principle or law exists, can it by applied to marriage and driver licenses, and, if so;
6. Who has made the determination, and by what legal process, that permits the States to pick and choose which acts of the other States they will, and will not, recognize?
I think it’s evident where I’m going with this. If there is a principle or rule of law that requires every State to recognize the driver licenses issued by every other State, there’s no good reason why that principle or rule of law shouldn’t also apply to concealed carry permits.
Let’s see if Andrew Branca is not too busy and can give you an answer.