You Can Stop Helping Anytime You Want, Thanks. (Again)

Moms Demand just threw this out in the Facebook:
Moms Demand open carry slobs

Here is a bigger version of the picture:
Moms Demand open carry slobs 2

Dear So-called defenders of the Second Amendment: Can we at least try to dress like we weren’t just expelled out of the local homeless shelter or bought our all our clothing for under $10?

“But Miguel, it is my right so foyck you that’s why!” Guess what retard, it is my right too and you are not helping us by looking like the parody of Gun Owner the Opposition loves to spread around.  This happened in Texas and guess what will happen the next time the Open carry bill comes up in the legislature? Guess whose picture and behavior the Opposition will present to the public to garner support for their side?  Yes, those two idiots above will be the representation of our side.

And another thing, Shemaghs? Cool if you are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, but they look stupid in Downtown Forth Worth (Or any other locale for that matter.) Full Chest rig with all kinds of MOLLE pouches and crap? Ditto.  In fact, nothing with MOLLE or in colors like Tan, Desert, Tropical or any kind of Cammo, not even sponsored by Duck Commander.

If your intention is to spread the a message, you can start by dressing with a tried and true US tradition: A T-Shirt.  But not any T-shirt but one representing an association and everybody wearing the same one. It calls attention, it says we are a group representing something and we want you to see our message. Here is an example:

IGOLD

These are the folks of Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA). Check for photos of their marches and gatherings in Google. That calls not only attention but positive attention, but they are truly dedicated Gun Rights advocates who most of the time had to go lobby on a work day paying their on way and the managed to beat the Cook County Political machine and get Concealed Carry in Illinois.

For the love of the god of your choosing.  If have troubles understanding the concept of the Battle of Perception, stay the hell home, chomp down on some Cheetos, order some Burger King (They now deliver) and watch some New Zealand Underground Anime.

We’ll do the work.

Update: Now this is how you Open Carry a rifle. With class.
heston

28 Replies to “You Can Stop Helping Anytime You Want, Thanks. (Again)”

  1. Man, there are no words. Especially for the fat one. Unless I’m out working, I’m always in clean jeans and T-shirt. It’s not that hard to look presentable when you go out in public. He looks like he’s wearing his pajamas. Of course what else can we expect when you see the parents of such going into the grocery store dressed just as bad if not worse. Our society is doomed i tell you.




    0



    0
  2. When you say “shemag”, do you have something against P-mags, or are you referring to the “shemagh” scarf? Also, while you make some excellent points, you ironically make us look bad by using words like “retard.”




    0



    0
      1. To clarify, I care not about PC or un-PC. I have known some mentally retarded people, and I have found them to be kind, benevolent people with a much harder row to hoe than I have. The guys above don’t have that excuse. They are just ass-clowns, plain and simple. I’d rather hang out with someone who’s mentally retarded than to hang out with someone who’s helping the enemy by their actions.

        I only bring it up because there are pro-gun families who have a “retarded” family member. I see no reason to alienate them by insulting their relative to make an otherwise good point.

        Thanks for letting me speak my piece.

        Best,
        Drifter




        0



        0
  3. Can we stop providing ammunition to the anti-rights cultists by being harder on the folks on our side then theirs?

    Let’s point out the bullying tactics of people like Shannon Watts who is demanding businesses conform to her prejudices. Let’s point out that these people patronized the business and she is trying to stop a legal activity.

    So they don’t dress in suits or matching shirts; most people don’t. Most people would see matching shirts and high dollar gear so many “Non-OCers” advocate and not be able to relate. But a pistol in an Uncle Mike’s holster and clothing they or their family wears; yep They can see themselves in that picture.

    Each form of advocacy and action has its own strengths and weaknesses;

    Check for photos of their marches and gatherings in Google.

    I support them completely but their activities are designed and look like carefully staged political propaganda pieces. Open Carry Texas has a different goal; normalizing the carrying of firearms in public. Doesn’t it make sense to show people of all types, shapes and economic conditions doing that?

    Bob S.
    3 Boxes of BS




    0



    0
  4. 3boxesofbs, I have yet to see one positive result from the OC Texas folks. What I do see and hear, are many of my friends or acquaintances here in Texas who have been on the fence about OC now saying long guns shouldn’t be allowed to be carried outside of a hunting situation.

    That doesn’t sound like the OC Texas tactics are working. In fact, if the TSRA takes up handgun OC again in the next legislative session – I wouldn’t be surprised if OC Texas and friends cause the issue to go belly up again because they cause more fear and anxiety than they do any sort of warm fuzzy feelings.




    0



    0
    1. MattW,
      How many people do you talk to versus how many people see them in person?
      Let’s not make our limited view the case for the public perception.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if OC Texas and friends cause the issue to go belly up again because they cause more fear and anxiety than they do any sort of warm fuzzy feelings.

      We gun bloggers and commenters certainly aren’t helping that persuade anyone with the type of talk seen here, are we?

      I have followed this closely, in the media and in person since I live in Tarrant county. And the idea they are causing fear and anxiety is greatly overblown. Comments like that play into the hands of Shannon Watts by spreading her view — why help the antis?

      The “Jack In the Box” Issue — the 911 call did not come from the store; came from someone in the Home Depot parking lot. The spokesperson for JitB declared that no one in the store hid in the freezer. So where is all the fear and anxiety? Moms Demanding Attention, the media and comments like yours. Sorry to lump you in with it but it seems to fit.

      We aren’t perfect and we shouldn’t expect our ‘ambassadors’ to be perfect either. That is the greatest case we can make — and all too often we fail completely to make it — even dressed as they are, even with or without signs, even without notifying the police — they did nothing wrong, they did nothing illegal.

      Let’s push that view and change the story in the media — we shouldn’t allow MDA to keep pushing their lies unchallenged.




      0



      0
  5. Wow, lumping me in with the anti’s, such a good way to work together. I’m sorry you can’t take criticism or accept the fact that we DEPEND on the media’s perception – however wrong it may be. That fact of the matter is that these OC demonstrations are not graceful, rarely well planned out, and cause more destructive attention than good.

    I don’t care that the media lied about the freezer incident at JIB. The vast majority of people in this country will hear that on the news and stop there – already making a judgment.

    I also find it rather funny that you feel you have a better grasp on how extensive the fear is caused by these situations. I live in Denton County, and have also been following these very closely so I don’t see where your credentials should sway me.

    Can you honestly tell me that the people that end up causing a scene by carrying long guns don’t actually feed MDA etc.. just as much? They wouldn’t have anything useful to try and cause alarm if these were done differently. Even the various LEOs in the recent OC situations have noted that the people demonstrators haven’t handled themselves very well.

    Yes it is legal to OC a long gun in Texas. Yes, it SHOULD be normal to do so. Unfortunately, it is not currently. And the way these people carry out their little attention getting outings, it provides all the more for MDA and other anti groups to present gun folks as crazy dangerous people – even though we aren’t.

    P.S. I also think you are over exaggerating the sphere of influence that gun bloggers and commenters have. I don’t see the mass media, MDA and the antis, or the general public talking about the conflicting views put forth in the comments section of a gun blog.




    0



    0
    1. Pot – Meet the Kettle.Sorry Matt W didn’t mean to lump you in with the antis wholesale. Just that the comments about fear and anxiety are coming from our side as much as the antis.

      I’m sorry you can’t take criticism or accept the fact that we DEPEND on the media’s perception – however wrong it may be.

      I disagree. We don’t depend on the media’s perception as much as we have to factor it into our actions. This is exactly what I’m talking about — the Media lied. Instead of spending our time pointing out that fact; we are arguing the effectiveness of a group’s methods.
      We can counter and even use the media perception against MDA, we can point out….and document the media’s lies. The JiB issue is a great one — the FWPD lied and the media reported it — call them on it.

      That fact of the matter is that these OC demonstrations are not graceful, rarely well planned out, and cause more destructive attention than good.

      That is your opinion stated as fact. So help me out; how do we normalize Open Carry without doing any Open Carry?
      How do we make Open Carry seem something that the average person does instead of a political demonstration like the iGold?
      (not knocking them but their demonstrations clearly show organization and planning — very much contrary to someone just going about their business).

      I also find it rather funny that you feel you have a better grasp on how extensive the fear is caused by these situations.

      Straw man argument. I’m not claiming better grasp. In fact, I called out my own limited perception — OUR LIMITED perception — versus the number of people who see Open Carry Texas /Tarrant County in action.

      Even in the local media; we simply aren’t seeing a fire storm of fear or anxiety. The story flares up for a day and then goes away; the comments are more positive then negative for OC.

      Even the various LEOs in the recent OC situations have noted that the people demonstrators haven’t handled themselves very well.

      Please point out that information because I’ve missed most of it. I’ve seen negative comments from the FWPD (the people who called out 10 squad cars for a legal action and lied why they did so) mention that the OCT should — but not have to — or could inform them of their actions before hand to reduce the over -reaction. Again, that is the only negatives I’ve seen.

      P.S. I also think you are over exaggerating the sphere of influence that gun bloggers and commenters have. I don’t see the mass media, MDA and the antis, or the general public talking about the conflicting views put forth in the comments section of a gun blog.

      And that is where part of the disconnect is – I don’t mean we have a huge sphere of influence in our little online community but we do have a circle of influence in the real world. We can counter the fear and anxiety by pointing out they did nothing illegal, they did nothing overt to cause the reactions. That the mere presence of a firearm isn’t sufficient provocation for alarm. We can talk to our friends and family; the very ones you point out as being turned off and use these incidents to educate.

      Let’s point out to our friends and family, our co-workers that the OCT group does look like we do. They do the same activities we do; go to the same stores (i’ve eaten at the FTW Jack in the Box many times) — and when they go there; they are behaving, they aren’t breaking the law. It is the people like MDA who are calling the police or pushing stores to make a decision.

      I’m not saying don’t criticize the OC crowd; I’m asking we spend more time pushing back against the media and MDA lies.




      0



      0
  6. I’ve had this photo in my “gonna comment on this idiocy” tab since CSGV posted it. Someone tell me what the law is on brandishing is in Texas.

    Also, the little waste of DNA on the right has a FB page where he seems to be referring to getting high and selling dope.

    An absolute freaking ROCKET SCIENTIST.




    0



    0
    1. I started to look up the section again, it has been a few months since I reviewed any of it, but then I decided I’m too tired.

      Basically, Handguns are not allowed to be visible unless you are on private property and the owner allows it.

      I don’t think there is a specific “brandishing” law when it comes to long guns. I’m pretty sure some folks have been charged with things like disturbing the peace and such for open carrying a rifle in a legal location.




      0



      0
    2. Bob,

      The statutes for brandishing can be found in Section 9
      Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor’s purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

      Open Carry of long guns is legal because it is not specifically prohibited by statute – see

      Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

      Disorderly Conduct is also applicable

      Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

      (1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

      (2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

      (3) creates, by chemical means, a noxious and unreasonable odor in a public place;

      (4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner;

      (5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy;

      (6) fights with another in a public place;

      (7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;

      (8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

      (9) discharges a firearm on or across a public road;

      Note the operative wording is in part 8 — the firearm must be displayed in a manner calculated to alarm. Mere presence or carrying of a firearm does not qualify and in the main intentionally or knowingly

      Grieve v. State has made that clear

      Although the State maintains the fact that someone called the police is sufficient to show the gun was displayed in a way calculated to cause alarm, we cannot agree. The mere fact that the police were called is not evidence of the way in which the gun was displayed. Nor is the mere fact that a person saw a gun “displayed” on a balcony evidence that the balcony was in a public place. Without some evidence describing the balcony or the manner in which the gun was displayed, we cannot conclude there were any facts or circumstances showing the gun was displayed in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm.

      Please let me know if you need anything else.




      0



      0
  7. I swear, Tapco products must spread the dread disease Tactikool Derpititus. That poor little SKS never asked to be defiled by all that Go Fast plastic.




    0



    0
  8. Do any of you really think that the anti’s see anything past the gun ?

    Does it honestly matter how they are dressed to the Anti’s? Suit’s, tie’s, polished shoes, .mil spec hair cut. they will still only see the gun.

    They will complain on the gun period.

    Just the other stuff they will ” make fun of” just shows how intolerant they are, how they are everything they claim we are.

    I do find it funny Miguel, that you in this post advocate wearing the same shirt .. yet in your next post admonish the Anti’s for suggesting we do the same thing.

    Anyways my point still being :

    The Anti’s will only see the gun.




    0



    0
    1. See? You are missing our intended target. I don’t face the Antis to convince them but to convince those who have no position or not a strong one. The Low Information Voter will not make a deep effort to analyze something that is not dear to them but get a few clues. Those clues better be good ones and our side.

      I do find it funny Miguel, that you in this post advocate wearing the same shirt .. yet in your next post admonish the Anti’s for suggesting we do the same thing.

      You do not see the difference?




      0



      0
      1. Perhaps….

        but it the manor of dress swings them to the anti side… they were not really on the fence in the first place… they were anti and just pretending to be on the fence.




        0



        0
      2. And yes I DO See the difference between providing a ” uniform front” to the viewer.. and the “required marking of CCW’s”. But do you see the similarities?

        Maybe I’m taking it more sensitive as I’m not exactly a little guy myself and like the large man in the photo…. a T-shirt big enough to fit me is hard enough to find as is… getting one with say an NRA print.. or any other group “custom” T-shirt NEVER happens. … and wearing B-ball shorts is common place esp after the temps kick up ( I’m pretty sure it was in the 80’s already in Dallas…it is here in Colorado already).




        0



        0
        1. Maybe I’m taking it more sensitive as I’m not exactly a little guy myself and like the large man in the photo. a T-shirt big enough to fit me is hard enough to find as is… getting one with say an NRA print.. or any other group “custom” T-shirt NEVER happens.

          Excuses….actually BS. NRA Shirts come up to 4X depending on the model, I just checked.http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/home.aspx
          And as not finding “custom” what part of custom you or the organization don’t get?
          And please, don’t get me the song and dance about how hard is for big guys to find clothing as I am one myself. There is no excuse for looking like a slob no matter the size.




          0



          0
          1. I wear 4xT so that nothing hangs out as I’m not just wide I’m tall .. LOL . I am surprised that the NRA has 4xl to be honest I’ve never looked I’m not a member and prefer to not advertise my position on gun control like that . RARELY do organizations print t-shirts larger then 1xl … sometimes 2xl but almost never 3x or 4x ( I do a lot of work where t-shirt give aways to staff are the norm.. I don’t even bother looking anymore)




            0



            0
  9. When I see someone standing around in a restaurant in a low ready carry position, I would say that #8 applies easily. Especially since he already has it on a single point sling, so he isn’t merely holding the rifle – he’s readying the rifle. . . in the absence of any apparent legally VALID reason to be using it momentarily.

    Personally, I would fade out the back and get away, or at least fade somewhere behind him, fully prepared to drop him if he nuts.

    And _I_ am quite comfortable with Open Carry and feel it _should_ be normalized. OC’d before VA went Shall Issue, OC today when I’m too lazy to put a cover garment on, used to walk around with long arms while walking theorugh upper middle class suburban neighborhoods on my way to go plinking, etc. (Hell, my ex-wife has garnered international attention advocating OC by just “acting normal while armed”. THAT is “normalizing” OC, because they see her and SHE ISN’T ACTING SCARY.)

    Clue-by-Four: If your attention seeking activities make other people ALREADY ON YOUR BASIC SIDE start to see you as a plausible threat to safety, you darned sure aren’t converting ANYONE who is on the fence or who holds (in your opinion) mistaken views on the matter.

    What these asshats are doing is NOT “normalizing” OC — they are MAKING IT LOOK THREATENING TO THE PUBLIC.

    That’s the opposite of “helpful”.




    0



    0
  10. Am I alone with the sneaking suspicion that “these open-carry-YouTube-posters” are on “the take”? All their actions also results in favor of the Gun-Control. Someone needs to investigate these guys.




    0



    0
  11. I don’t open carry myself but I support the rights of others to do it if they wish. But why is it every picture of a small open carry meet and greet in front of business looks like a collection of decently armed hobos and homeless? Damn it! When are these people going to realize that as a public image of American gun owners they leave a certain impression in the minds of the “sheep” around them of what a gun owner is and how they behave, or don’t.




    0



    0
  12. And another thing, Shemaghs? Cool if you are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, but they look stupid in Downtown Forth Worth (Or any other locale for that matter.)

    How about Indianapolis in winter? Am I allowed to wear mine there?




    0



    0

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.