I read Miguel’s post We are trained for the wrong fight, and the post at The Silicon Graybeard and what was copied from American Partisan.

I must be very careful with how I address my conclusions.

First of all, to be fair to our community, we trained for the wrong fight because I don’t think any one of us could have predicted the situation we are in now, it is somewhat unique in history.

We in the gun-owing, concealed carry, and Second Amendment enthusiast community saw basically two threats:

Primarily, the threat was from criminals.  These people were muggers, home invaders, armed robbers, maybe rapists, who would do us harm for personal gain or pleasure.  They were individuals or maybe a handful of people at a time.  We knew that some minimum level of competency would be sufficient to substantially increase our chance of victory in a violent encounter.

We were bolstered by the fact that most of us lived in areas with castle doctrine and/or stand your ground.  Despite the circus that was the Treyvon Martin trial, there was a certain amount of assurance that if someone kicked in our door at 2:00 am with a knife, and one of us was forced to shoot the intruder, such a cut-and-dry case was not one we had an overabundance of fear for legal repercussions.

Politically, our biggest fear was politicians who banned guns and the police would carry out the confiscation order.

While there was a political element to riots (i.e., the motivation for the riot being something political) the looting and violence within the riots we had seen in the past was criminal chaos.  The defense of Koreatown by Korean store owners was our worst-case scenario.  The police in LA eventually cracked down on the Rodney King rioters, the National Guard was brought in, and the politicians in charge (even the Democrats) understood that they had to maintain order.

What we are seeing now is very different.

This is CW1.5, only one side is a war.  The riots are not criminal chaos.  The other side is employing irregular guerilla forces.  Antifa is a militia that has been battle-hardened over the last 100 days of continuous combat in Portland.  Veterans of Portland have traveled to other cities to train and equip local guerrillas in other cities.

That has done this with the tacit or explicit support of local Leftist politicians.

They have, very, very carefully tuned the violence dimmer switch on their side and are holding it at exactly the right spot for the which puts us at our weakest.

That is the reason I said this is CW1.5.  They are clearly engaged in guerilla combat against us.  But, they have held back on the worst violence enough to maintain a facade of still functioning civil society.  They are using our own law abidance against us.

Consider the quote:

Me and three of my buddies were in Portland this weekend, got attacked by Antifa. There’s a Twitter video with millions of views on it. They ended up on Hannity and Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro etc., of us getting beaten with bats and rocks the size of cantaloupes thrown at us, getting spit on etc. We were all carrying pistols as well. Opportunity, ability and jeopardy, we were in a deadly force situation and we could easily articulate the use of deadly force, but they had pepper sprayed us. They were using industrial strobe lights on us, etc. We couldn’t PID our target and what lied beyond it, They did a great job of taking our situational awareness away, it was fucking incredible.

Now later on the author says:

Bottom line, man, if you had ever given me a scenario like this and said hey, you’re sober, and you have a gun, and somebody is hitting you with a bat and throwing rocks at you that could kill you or put you in a coma, you try to get away but they cut you off with a convoy of vehicles and the assault starts again. They impede your movement and beat you with bats…
Would you shoot?

I’d be like, yeah what fucking planet are you from?

But in all the training that I’ve been through my life, I’ve never been in one where in the first five seconds of the scenario you’re blinded with a strobe light and sprayed with pepper spray…. That changes everything. They were throwing these rocks from 15 feet back in the crowd, you couldn’t see who the fuck through it, etc. things like that…. It’s just a good talking point for guys that carry concealed, but you need to think through all these different scenarios.

This guy is a combat veteran.  I can’t believe this is the worst scenario he’s been in while he’s armed.  The thing is, he is coming at this from the mindset of a guy carrying concealed, prepared to defend himself from a mugger, where every single round he puts down range he is accountable for.

He’s applying CCW ROE to a combat zone.

Had those been insurgents in Iraq, his ROE would have been different.  Lighting the street up with belt-fed covering fire until an A-10 can fuck the other side’s day up is totally acceptable.

That is why I suspect that so many of us are screaming inside our own heads with our skin crawling.

We know the other side is at war with us but we cannot be at war with them.  As long as local police still exist, George Soros funded Leftist prosecutors still have authority, and the courts are functioning, we can’t flip the switch to “kill fucking everything.”

They can hit people with bats, they can throw rocks, they can blind with lasers, and prosecutors will drop all charges against them.  We take one shot after getting hit in the head with a rock and kicked in the face, and we find ourselves being prosecuted for first-degree murder.

One line from Silicon Graybear’s post stood out at me:

I also know that in the last hundred years, regular armies have fared poorly against insurgencies like this; regular armies are built to fight regular armies, not guerilla armies on their home turf. 

That’s not entirely true.  Regular armies have done very well against insurgency, it just requires tactics that we civilized people find distasteful.  Ask the Germans how they dealt with insurgents.  There are whole cemeteries filled with civilians executed to root out one insurgent in a town.  We were doing well against the Viet Cong until Americans saw a picture of a little naked Vietnamese girl running down the street covered in Napalm and we stopped burning whole villages to the ground.  The Soviets were known for poisoning wells in rural Afghan villages.

I’d also add that there are many of us here that have read “What I saw at the coup.”  We have the ability to be an insurgent army on our own.  Unlike what happened in that piece of fiction, our government is still effectively functioning, and the judicial system in those areas is very much in enemy hands.  But again, they have not pushed the situation to the point where we can invoke Rule 308.  The tipping point in the story was the murder or disappearance of hundreds of our side.  So far there has only been one confirmed political casualty, the shooting of Aaron Danielson.  All the other homicides associated with this social unrest can be attributed to random criminal violence and not direct political violence.

Antifa has us right where they want us.  Applying enough force to make us fear for our lives, using tactics that compromise our ability to defend ourselves while being law-abiding concealed carriers, but not enough force to flip our switch to “it’s on.”

Right now it seems like they have the ability to hold us here in this uncomfortable position for as long as they’d like.  I truly don’t know how or when this will end.  I know it can’t go on forever.  What I do know is that never in a million years did any of us expect that we would be the victims of collusion between Leftist government and Leftist guerrillas.

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By J. Kb

25 thoughts on “We are trained for the wrong fight. But, to be fair, it was impossible for us to predict this fight and is impossible for us to win it under the current situation”
  1. Short of federal intervention — which may be a cure worse than the disease — we may have to cede those areas until their populations tire of terrorist behavior.

    The grim part is that could take a while, especially as Antifa/BLM have been more than happy to intimidate said populace.

  2. Question is, though, what’s the end game they’re heading towards by holding at this level of violence?

    1. The standard answer to “what’s the end game” is ultimately to destabilize the government and economy to a point where the bleating sheep will plead for an end to the violence which the fascist left will then step up and claim they are our saviors and regain power.

      1. They are not pretending to be saviors. It’s a protection racket: “if you don’t elect us we will burn your city to the ground.”

        1. But of course when the people elect them to avoid being inundated with violent mobs forever, the mobs will suddenly disappear, and the Masters will take credit for having saved us all from the mobs.

    2. Their main aim is to provoke a violent response. That is the one thing missing from this author’s analysis. Not only is it not safe for us to return violence with violence, IT’S WHAT THEY WANT US TO DO. Either a citizen, or preferably a police, or even better a National Guard unit. They want a second Boston Massacre. Those who read history know that the Revolution was still a radical group of extremists without truly widespread support, until the day a small unit of British regulars was assaulted by an angry mob, pelting them with rocks, threatening to beat or kill them them. The soldiers warned them away multiple times, warned they would open fire if they did not desist and leave them alone. The mob instead swarmed towards the scared soldiers, and they opened fire, fearing for their lives if the mob was allowed to get close enough to overwhelm and disarm them. A handful of people were killed and injured, and the mob dispersed. The newspapers picked up the story and turned it into a “massacre”, painting it as a unit of soldiers coming in with guns and opening fire on an innocent crowd of people, murderous tyrant’s henchmen. This blatant and untruthful editorializing was a main force in turning the public opinion in favor of the radical revolutionaries. I know it’s a shame to compare the Founders with Antifa, but in honesty, revolutionaries are revolutionaries, and the tactics are the same, whatever the underlying motive is (and in many ways the Revolutionary mobs were just as bad as Antifa, or even worse).
      So what they are hoping for is to provoke someone into killing rioters, because they know they can trust the media to make it into a tragic massacre of innocents (see Kent State), putting them on the moral high ground. They can decry “white supremacist terrorism” (if it’s a civilian pushed beyond his or her limits), or “state suppression of protestors with deadly force” if it’s a unit of police forced to fire on a mob to force them to stand back.
      As long as the “protestors” are not actively shooting people, they can pretend they are “peaceful”, and that they can do whatever they like without consequences (with the occasional attempted mass murder like the arsonist who tried to blow up a hotel being downplayed and dismissed by the media). As long as they are “peaceful” we cannot shoot at them, and the police can barely even act to disperse them, because the media immediately paints the police as evil brutes the moment they try to use any of the tools at their disposal, such as tear gas and batons. They are engaged in a revolution, hoping either to provoke us into fighting back, or if we fail to fight back, they figure they can supply enough intimidation and terror with only burning and looting and harassing people to force the people into meeting their demands.
      They only real solution to this is for organized counter-mobs willing to go out and literally brawl in the streets. We cannot use deadly force, but we can also take clubs and pepper spray and go and be “peaceful” protestors as well. Of course the media will do all they can to paint us as the bad guys, agitators, violent thugs going out to break ‘peaceful protestor’s” heads, blaming us for any violence that occurs (how dare those right wing types go out and provoke antifa by trying to exercise their own freedom of speech? Clearly this fight would not have happened if they had just left Antifa in possession of the streets, and remained silent at home!)
      The National Socialists faced a very similar situation in the 1920s, with organized bands of Communists (aka “Social Democrats”) going around in mobs, using riots and organized assaults to silence any opposing political parties, to deny they the ability to spread their message, to intimidate local officials into banning the opposition for fear of the riots and violence the left would cause. They would attack any opposing rally with mobs armed with clubs. It got to the point where they would just call up the police and inform them that if the opposition was allowed to hold their rally, they would show up and start a riot and a street brawl….so the police would shut down the opposing rally “to keep the peace”. That’s all the Communists had to do to prevent their opponents from spreading their message, Tearing down their posters, harassing and beating anyone they saw handling out anti-communist pamphlets, berating and heckling, or even assaulting anyone who was giving an anti-Communist speech in the streets, preventing them from speaking.
      In the end this is why the Nazis organized the “brownshirts”: to be their own organized street fighting band, to defend their meetings from Communists who would shut them down, to break up Communist mobs intent on intimidating and disrupting the population when they wouldn’t get their own way. You don’t have to agree with the political aims of the Nazis to see that their tactics were sound. They couldn’t return to 1919 and go back to shooting the Communists in the streets, but they COULD fight fire with fire. And we should do the same. Of course the problem is that we need young people, and we need it to be organized so people can leave their work, take the inevitable risks of arrest and official harrasment, we need a legal fund, and a PR arm. But it’s the only option for fighting Antifa. It worked wonderfully well in the 1930s. Communists never change, they are using the exact same tactics today.

    1. For now that may be true. Next year, who knows.
      As for preparing for the wrong fight, a few pessimistic writers have covered scenarios like this, partly in fiction, partly not. Matthew Bracken comes to mind as a particularly good example. I continue to hope that the enemy will not pick up “Enemies foreign and domestic” to use as a guide book, the way they have done with “Animal Farm” and “1984”.

  3. I might have shot. I’m no lawyer but it is articulable that the immediate crowd was presenting an immenent threat of death or grevious bodily harm and if being beaten by a bat, there were certainly people in bad breath distance with a weapon. Question is if the crowd scatters or rushes you at that point.

    I’m most concerned about the disapearring part. Not from some rogue government per say but of people on our side who get sent to jail for defending themselves or a business etc. At what point will they refuse to comply with a gov order to go to jail and at what point will our side support that refusal? I’m surprised we haven’t seen more of a bundy or malheur situation yet but I guess the circumstances haven’t occured yet for that to happen.

    1. Matt, I agree. If rioters try to blind you, the rational and defensible conclusion is that they intend serious harm to you, and this is the opening move to make it hard for you to respond.
      As for brick throwers hiding 15 feet back, so what? The people in front of them are accomplices — unless they react to the thrown brick by running away. If you shield a felon in the process of committing a felony, you are legally, and especially morally, an accomplice before the fact.
      The way I see it, Col. Cooper’s Four Rules do not trump the first principle of “whatever it takes to preserve the life and bodily integrity of yourself and your family”.
      “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted
      — Brown v. United States, 256 U.S. 335 (1921). If dealing with the uplifted knife involves short-changing some of Col. Cooper’s rules, so be it.

      1. Sure, why don’t you go and try that and see what happens?
        What SHOULD happen has little relation to what WILL happen. You will be turned into a dangerous white supremacist terrorist who went out with a gun looking for innocent protestors to murder, a gun toting nut who opened fire into a crowd of “unarmed” (they didn’t have GUNS, see?) protestors, arrested for 1st degree murder and raked by the justice system and the media.
        You might try to defend yourself if the mob had approached you suddenly on the streets while you were out walking with your wife, and you had no way of escaping or avoiding them. If you walked up to them intentionally, or were out on the streets during a curfew armed, you will go to prison for 20 years. That’s the entire point of this article: since they aren’t openly carrying guns and engaging in LETHAL combat, the media can pretend they are “peaceful” protestors, and anyone who escalates to using lethal force on them will be ground into dust. They are TRYING to provoke people. It’s obvious.

    2. Tell that to Kyle Ritterhouse. If you go into a violent riot with a firearm and shoot someone, no matter if it’s an armed mob of ten men with clubs chasing you down the street, they WILL charge you with murder. You went into a violent situation carrying a deadly weapon, obviously you had intent to kill. Never mind that the mob could easily beat you to death with their fist. You should have stayed home…only radical leftists are allowed to demonstrate and riot with impunity,

  4. Aesop of Raconteur Report told of a thought experiment in his essay, “Tomorrow”.

    Ominous. I pray things do not go there.

    1. Aesop has been beclowning himself with bleatings about how La Rona was going to Kill Us All unless we listened to his Expert Advice (after, of course, he initially discounted it completely), and I have no interest at all in anything else he has to say. In fact, there are other bloggers I have dropped entirely because they continue to attend Aesop at his pontifications as though they mean anything beyond inflation of his own ego and self-importance.
      At this point, I regard anything he says as having no more trustworthiness than a Joe Biden speech (except old uncle handsy has the excuse of dementia; Aesop is simply that conceited as to imagine that his proclamations define The Way Things Are).
      His attacking and trolling the comment sections of any place that calls him on his bullshit and failed predictions further degrades his dignity.
      If you want something to be considered seriously, an Aesop wandering is NOT way to bring it to others’ attention. Either we’re already drinking his kool-aid, or we automatically tune him out.

  5. Kermit: while you are certainly entitled to your own appraisal of Aesop and his proclamations, his failings, or not, do not remove his essay, “Tomorrow”, from being a useful thought experiment.

    However flawed it is (or isn’t), I see it as a thought provoking stimulus of how things might unfold.

    However disturbing I find those implications.

    1. You are right, in that someone wrong on some issues can be right on others. Hell, I agreed from time to rare time with Obama.
      But I’m not going to keep checking a malfunctioning clock on the off-chance that today it might be right; even more so when that clock goes out of its way to slam and denigrate those that have pointed out all the times it has been wrong.
      I see no need or reason to go reading the meanderings of a stopped-clock self-aggrandizing jerk in hopes he might say something profound.

  6. J.Kb. (and Miguel) thanks for the links and the useful discussion.

    You went down a lot of roads I didn’t go (the post would have been TL:DR for me). It was likewise hard for me to see why they didn’t start shooting, but my conclusion was that they can only shoot in one direction at a time, and they figured if they started shooting, there’s no reason that they couldn’t get their heads smashed in with a brick from behind.

    If the three of them started firing in 120 degree sectors, they would clear out the immediate area. For however many magazines they had on them. Then their heads would be smashed in. Could they have gotten away by firing a couple of magazines each? Maybe, maybe not, but that’s the kind of blood letting that would have been required.

    I almost went down the road of regular armies succeeding against an insurgency if they kill the entire population, but it’s a foregone conclusion that the US army would not do that at all, let alone in an American city.

    We have groups of special operators who I have no doubt could infiltrate these groups, slit the appropriate throats and exfiltrate back out. It would take a while but it would be effective. Most importantly, though, is to find the people who are funding this and slit their throats.

    1. That second paragraph was supposed to end with reference to them having the CCW mindset, like you say. If they were in Iraq and surrounded by Al Qaeda, yeah they’d leave no one alive, but they weren’t in Iraq.

  7. Disavow or delete this if you must, but at some point, rogue law enforcement, prosecutors, and judges WILL have to be dealt with one way or another. That’s when the REAL bad stuff goes down.

  8. Yesterday on TV there was a report from Portland showing a “homeless tent camping” set up by the city. It was filled with the antfa rioters. Sooner or later these staging areas need to be delt with to eliminate the on going problem

  9. The enemy is not the rioters. The rioters are opponents. The Enemy is the Mayors, City Councils and District Attorneys and Governors that allow this lawlessness to continue in Democrat controlled cities and states.

    Your opponents need to be jailed. Your Enemies need to be defeated, completely and permanently. They must never be allowed in a position of power again.

  10. I really really appreciate what your saying J. KB. You speak for me in spades. Lot in your essay to scope out. Word. And it is Good.

    given this much thinking too. As I’m certain we all are. It’s a real can-o- worms. In no way is it insurmountable. Like all things of this like, we simply will go thru a steep learning curve, then watch out Bitchez. You want to play neo-bolshevik red-october false revolution in my country? Well Ok then. You asked for it skumm. Just remember, nobody does grass roots revolution and resistance to tyranny like us. Not the .gov or the .mil, but us good folks. We are the glue that holds civilization together, and we are the ones, the only ones who can fight and win at this kind of war. We are born to it. It’s in our bones and runs thru our veins. Thats why our forebears made sure our right to Rifles was unalienable. They knew this shit upside down assbackwards. For our part no less so do we.
    I don’t own an ass-hault Rifle because it’s a fuckin’ hobby. I didn’t seek out small unit infantry combat tactic training for the citizen soldier because I got nothing else to do. Or spend an inordinate amount of my hard earned wealth equipping myself family and friends, trying to learn this 4th G war stuff because I’m a stupid mouth breathing raaaacist white man.
    I did all this and more cause it is a dangerous world, full of corrupt criminal pedo=elite skumbags who think they is going to rule over me or kill me and everything I love.

    4th Generation warfare rules mindset is part of the answer to learning how to fight and defend from this kind of LIC, Low Intensity Conflict, which ain’t very low intensity if your caught up in it.
    Elements of Col. Boydd’s OODA loop apply also.

    One thing that applies in spades is William S. Lind’s contention 4th G war is war of legitimacy, so it you take the intent of the tactics these marxist terror tactics trained actors are employing, you see that their “dimmer switch” centralized tactical command & control objectives is to maintain a defensive legitimacy while using all available resources and tactics to portray the enemy as illegitimate, even if you only are trying to evacuate the combat zone.

    It’s effective, in particular against anyone not cognizant prepared and equipped to using counter-terror tactics and resources.

    One could say, well fuck it, just open fire and take out as many hostiles as humanly possible. In certain aspects, this has merit, not immediate, but it changes the dialectic, as my Hero Kyle Rittenhouse did. The results of Kylr’s actions, which I can only hope I have a fraction of situational cognizance if I find myself in similar lethally dire circumstances. Amazing young man.

    Anyhoo, Kyle indeed changed the dialectic, and OpFor attempted to make a counter attack to regain the political moral high-ground and yellow media momentum, but failed wen they put on their organized murder last week. It was a gross miscalculation. sure the 5th column propagandists did their usual false narrative jive, but nobody was fooled and the effort died a still birth for all practical and fake political purposes.
    One way they failed is in keeping everything as political as humanly possible, this screens out the legitimate cultural, which is upstream of all politics. And by that in part I’m saying in cultural I mean, Our Rifles are the center of our history, hence culture. Very difficult to skate around this 100 million lb Gorilla in the room, takes a godawful amount of co-ordination and unrelenting never sleeping resources, and even then, 100 million Deplorable people are armed to the fucking teeth, and their family and tribes know why and that they are because our founders made this crystal clear, the history revisionists can kiss my arse, our arses. That is culture. Our American natural born red blooded American stance, along with the great codes and precepts history and traditions.

    Antifa and burnlootmurder, #BillClintonIsAPedo=Elite crowd who want to rule us, are in a serious pickle. They have not the resources and manpower to disarm us who be free men.
    What I think is going down, in part, is they are most intensively scoping out results and consequences of defensive reaction and action by FreeFor, particularly involving the use of our Rifles.
    A most cogent element of our Rifles, ( our weapons in all forms), is they are our property. That’s the first thing about our Rifles. Denying us our ifles is denying us our property is emasculating our dugnity of liberty and self defense. It is certainly what you could term a viscious circle in marian terms. Long winded I know, but to be cognizant of these elements of our primal rights is as vital as knowing your enemy, and what your enemy holds dearest, which are the first two objectives of war and winning war.
    And the power to deny us property, in all forms, is an extremely vital component of the ideological farce called marxism.

    So what I think we are seeing is a kind of mind job, they can never physiccally disarm us, but they might pull off politically disarming us.
    I think to, again, they are feeling us who be free, who will resist them, out. They are trying to find answers to the pickle they are in. Because…they got a tiger by the tail, oh boy do they, I was in Virginia on 1-20-2020, 50,000 armed to the fucking teeth shitlord and shitlordette citizen warriors is a force unlike any other. 50,000 cold-angry ready armed dirt people are not wrong, neither is a basket of 64 million Deplorable’s, and thats another thing here: color revolution. There has only been one successful grass roots genuine natural slave revolt in history. Care to take a guess who the economic slaves are? They only began to win when 4th G insurgency warfare was backed and supported and waged by the leadership of the first war of secession. About the battle of Kings Mountain was when we began to win.

    What I’m sneaking up on here beating the unconventional warfare LIC bush is that we are going to have to get our 4th G warfare legs under us. There is no easy answer to what was used against the above good fellows who got caught in the LIC and had to vamoose or die.
    But there are answers. And there are tactics, mindset, preps, and methods of counter marxist style 4th G warfare.
    We are highly creative industrious free thinking inventive and improvisational free people with incredible resources. What is missing for now, but is changing for the better is we have to adapt and overcome. Something we as free American’s have no equals.
    Much will become of citizen warrior way of war. The standards of 3rd Generation Warfare military tactics and strategy do not apply. Period. One must move past this thinking and mind set. Keep on mind we are regular folks, we think different, it is us, guarantee it, who will be who effects positive change thru our Rifles or our peaceful resources. I admire Max Velocities conclusions and understanding of the very essential nuances of citizen soldier needs and tactics, tailored to these dynamics. Big Green is frankly out of the OODA Loop on this. Though be nice if they supported us with certain items and resources, step back and do not try to out army us.
    But here’s the thing. This is a people’s war, it is us free peoples duty to take care of this business. We can do this. We have the means, we number in the millions, shit we are all but a Legion, armed to the fucking teeth.

    One other point is almost without exception, “insurgencies” of the last hundred years are not insurgencies in regards to grass roots open source populist uprisings, they have all been proxies, of States, who enjoy the protections of being far from the battlefields, secure in their defense, supplying massive resources material and support to their “insurgents”. Anitfa-burnlootmurder are no different. They are in a word, astro-turf. They are NOT fighting for home hearth kith and kin, fighting a war which if they lose thats it, there is no place to run to, and who of us is gonna run in that case anyways?

    We are gonna take some lumps before this business is finished, but in the long run we can not be defeated, long as we keep our cool, retain our nerve, and become focused citizen warriors.
    No lack in our 2000 year history and culture of such warriors. We would not be America, American’s, Freemen of The West otherwise. We certainly would not be armed to the fucking teeth.
    You see any other people who are in this world. Any others who got what it takes to fight these pedo=elites and their proxies and win big?
    I do not.

    We just need to suck it up, man up, up arm, and stick together as brothers and very much so, sisters.
    What I experienced on 1-20-2020, what was there in Richmond, the motive power and audacity is proof of our bonafides.

    They can win the rhetorical war, but we have Rifles. Lots of Rifles. We outnumber by orders of magnitude any army on God’s green Earth.
    Believe you me, they fear us like nothing else.
    They can not stop us once we get our shit together, nothing can.
    Ruthless they may be, but they fail to appreciate how mean us good folks get when the fuck with us and violate our codes.
    Which is coming one way or another.

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