A man was shot and killed by police, the bloody aftermath of which was broadcast live on Facebook in a video where the man’s girlfriend says the “police shot him for no apparent reason, no reason at all.”
Philando Castile, 32, an elementary school cafeteria supervisor who studied at the University of Minnesota, is seen bloodied and in pain with a gunshot wound to the stomach as the video comes on and his girlfriend begins talking to the camera.
“He told him that it was in his wallet, but he had a pistol on him because he’s licensed to carry. The officer said don’t move. As he was putting his hands back up, the officer shot him in the arm four or five times,” she said.
Source: Facebook Live Video Shows Man Dying from Police Shooting
We don’t see what happened prior to the beginning of the video, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was lot of tension followed by contradictory orders by the police and not having a prior plan on how to address and inform of the status.
Here is a good video of Massad Ayoob explaining what you should do in a case like that. Notice the Tom Gresham is carrying his ID in a front pocket of his vest rather than the back pants pocket. I have been doing that ever since I started to carry because cops like to see hands at all times.
At a time like this, your goal is not to get shot. Keep the “Am I being Detained?” BS for Gun Forum discussions. Be polite, comply with the officer and you may even get a break with the ticket. Above all: Have a plan and practice it.
My plan is to toss the wallet on the dashboard immediately after I come to stop and before the officer approaches the car. At which point my hands will be at 10 and 2. …and the dome light on, if at night.
Fortunately I haven’t ever had to execute that plan.
O2
I had the same plan. Put the wallet on the dash.
I was stopped last month, and the officer was at my door before I could get the wallet out. I kept my hands on the wheel like you recommend, and reached for the wallet slowly with one hand AFTER he asked for ID, and after I told him where my ID was.
Surprised that you didn’t have time to get things out, they usually run plates before they approach you. I agree, if they’ve made it to your door, don’t be digging 🙂
But you did remind me, I did get stopped once (loooong time ago, back in the “may” [read: no] issue permit days of my state). It was by a state police officer for speeding. I wasn’t carrying, nor did I have a firearm in the car. I was civil, and the guy had me sitting in the front seat, chatting, while he wrote out the ticket. We were behind my truck, and he asked me what my license plate meant. Choosing my words carefully, I said “It’s a firearm caliber I use in competition”.
I didn’t know someone’s eyes could open that wide. He twisted towards me (making the gun on his right hip just about completely inaccessible) and said “You don’t have a gun on you right now, do you?” to which I responded, without moving anything but my lips, “No”. All the time thinking “Jeez, if I was going to pop you, I would have done so long before now.” Shows how disconnected the thought process can be when emotions or blind fear get involved.
O2
Wow. My first take away is how calm that lady is at first and how frantic that officer sounds; he sounds like he’s on the verge of tears when he says “I told him not to move!”
To me, that sounds like he knows he fucked up. The yelling fuck and other unintelligible obscenities and yelling doesn’t help his case.
Here is why I know this/make this judgement. It is the same exact thing I did in a car accident I caused. I immediately knew I fucked up and as I got out to see if the other people were OK, I kept saying fuck, mother fucker, and I fucked up bad to myself.
Maybe more evidence will come out that points one way or the other, but this doesn’t look good for the officer IMO.
In CT there is no duty to inform. If the officer asks me, I tell them I’m carrying and then ask them/tell them when I’m doing something before doing it.
This has happened to me on a separate occasion (from the car accident) and, the officer asked for my firearm. I told her where it was located and that it was loaded and that I would comply and hand it to her. Hearing that it was loaded she was instantly disinterested in me handing it to her and I was told to keep it. Interestingly she didn’t ask to see my permit, but she must have caught a glimpse of it in my wallet as I was giving her ID. A possible mitigating factor was that we were standing outside on a nice well lit day so there was good visibility of all of my extremities. Had my head been in the game and not focused on something else (my dad just getting hit by a car while riding his motorcycle and I watched it happen) I would have questioned the need to disarm.
Another occasion, police were prowling around my apartment at 2am, doing as much as they could to look like a burglar, while looking for an actual burglar. So I go to my door gun in hand, see its the police and put the gun down on the floor and open the door. Talk to the officer, inform him that there is a gun on the floor just out of sight so I don’t want him to freak out if he sees it. He looks at it, asks for ID, I tell him I have to go get it as I’m in slippers and underwear, then close the door on him and returned with ID. He was a pain in the ass because he kept trying to come inside and I told him about 5 times to stay outside. He also told be he would have shot me if I answered the door with gun in hand and I shouldn’t store a hand gun by the door. And thus he fully cemented his place in my mind as officer obtuse the fuck head.
Agreed – the officer’s mannerisms after the shoot make him realize he messed up.
So a thought I had, is I wonder if the problem stems from the cops trying to run two contradictory scripts at the same time. You have the armed suspect script, “Don’t move, or I’ll shoot you!” followed with the contradictory traffic stop script, “Show me your license and registration.”
There’s no shortage of accounts of this problem, and those of us steeped in the gun culture have used those lessons to create a plan for dealing with it; we immediately comply with the order that doesn’t get us shot, and address with the officer that the two orders are contradictory and ask for further clarification/guidance.
For those, not steeped in gun culture, I can’t fault them for trying to comply with the officer’s most recent order, but unfortunately this is what it leads to.
It wouldn’t be an “armed suspect script” in this case, unless demonstrated aggression preceded the event (of which there is no indication). Traffic stop for a broken tail light, cop asks guy if he’s armed, guy says yes, cop asks for his ID, guy reaches for ID, cop thinks “HE’S GOING FOR HIS GUN!” (forgetting he asked him to reach for his wallet), bang bang bang bang.
Whether this is intentional evil from a bully who grew up and needed a job or gross criminal negligence from a coward who didn’t receive remotely enough training to do a simple job, the legal outcome should be the same. Unfortunately, it likely won’t.
Of course, I’m in the camp that believes Warren v DC (1981) precludes any societal “need” for police, and I am through giving armed agents of the state — sworn to uphold and enforce hundreds of thousands of unconstitutional laws — any benefit of the doubt.
#1Cop1Cam and meaningful penalties for public servants who violate the public trust.
Slight correction, it SHOULDN’T be an armed suspect script, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t. Not that it really changes anything. Otherwise I fully agree.
Good point. Agree.
We should put a camera on every cop. Hung around their neck, required to be on during any interactions with the public, with a stiff penalty for it not being on at proper times. (I guess I’m OK with them turning the cam off to poop … Until that trust is abused … Never mind, always on it is)
There must be some visible accountability, or this is going to get real ugly real fast. There probably are more good cops than bad*, but if this nonsense continues, they’ll be judged by department/region _at_best_.
*(and more so-so cops than good+bad combined)
I ask the officer, “I have a CCW handgun. How do you want to handle this- do you want me to hand it to you, or step out of the car so you can take it off of me, or what? ”
This does two things: First, by letting the officer say how he wants the gun issue to proceed, it reassures him that he has control of the situation and helps keep him calm. Second, it switches his mind from Traffic-Stop-Danger-Mode to Decision-Making-Mode. It makes him stop reacting and start thinking. Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous jobs cops get and they know it. Anything that reduces Officer Ticket’s adrenaline level is going to work out positively for me.
I live in the Minneapolis area. This is big. So far there are over fifty to one hundred people protesting at the Governor’s mansion all night and all today. No violence yet, and hopefully none.
Last November an officer killed an African American, BLM occupied the Minneapolis Fourth Precinct yard for over a month in cold weather. There were no big riots, but lots of marches, disruptions, etc., including blocking off access to the MSP airport during a holiday rush. These activists are very organized and have a lot of DFL supporters.
If they are smart, they will keep things nonviolent as they appear to have the facts on their side this time.