A buddy sent this to me:
Police: Attack on Trump supporter sparked active shooter scare at mall
A dispute over a man’s open support for President Donald Trump led to last week’s active shooter scare at the Wyoming Valley Mall in Wilkes-Barre Twp.
Police say a Trump supporter wearing a red “Make America Great Again” hat pulled a gun on a man who threatened to assault him and then swatted at him to knock the hat off his head.
After the Trump supporter pulled the gun, the suspect fled, police said.
I think this is the first recorded case of an anti-Trumper trying to get violent with an armed Trump supporter.
News of the incident, which caused mall patrons to panic and flee as well, spread quickly online and sparked fears of a mass shooter at the shopping complex.
Not good.
Wilkes-Barre Twp. police were quick to post on social media that there was no active shooter and the Trump supporter, who holds a concealed carry permit, appeared justified in pulling his gun in self defense.
Given the details below, it seems that the cops were being both open-minded and generous with the Trump supporter.
Chief Will Clark on Tuesday indicated the Trump supporter was the victim and police are still looking for the person who attempted to assault him.
“The individual was wearing a hat in support of Donald Trump,” Clark said. “Apparently, the man told him to take the hat off. He refused. The individual threatened to assault him. The actor then took a swipe at the hat to knock it off his head. At that point, the victim backed up and drew his weapon and pointed it at the ground. The guy took off.”
The bolded text is why I said the shoot was dubious in the title and that the cops were being generous.
This was a DGU that ended without a shot fired because the attacker saw the gun and ran.
My issue is that the man backed up and pointed the gun at the ground. That seems a lot less like he was in immediate danger and more like brandishing. The police could have easily come down on the Trump supporter harder than the guy that took a swing at him.
In my personal opinion, I think that anti-brandishing laws are stupid. The law should make more room for, lack of better phrasing, “defensive gun displays.” I come down on the side of Michael Strickland. He was being stalked by a group of aggressive protesters and masked Antifa back to he car as he was trying to leave a political protest and he drew he gun and told the people stalking him to back off. Given the previous violent history of Antifa, his fears were justified.
To me, it’s like the rattle of a rattlesnake. A warning that if the aggressor doesn’t back down and fast, it won’t end well for him. A law-abiding citizen shouldn’t have to wait until the last second before he can rely on a gun to save himself, considering how quickly some of these punks turn tail at the sight of a gun. When a group of punks surrounds you and menaces you, it’s already too late, the law shouldn’t make you keep it holstered until they take a swing at your head
BUT…
The law doesn’t allow that so carry permit holders need to be double sure what they do is legal and on the up-and-up.
Wilkes-Barre Township is in Luzerne County, which went 58% for Trump, so is probably a little more gun-friendly, and given the situation more likely to side with the permit holder over the attacker. Had this happened in Philadelphia, I’m sure the guy in the MAGA hat would be going to jail for this.
Still, we got very close to a punk with TDS catching a bullet for attacking a Trump supporter. I’m sure it will happen before the election.
Be careful out there, and be sure that if you have to draw, you do it according to the law.
I don’t know Pennsylvania laws at all, so are you sure it’s brandishing there? It is here in Florida, maybe it’s not there?
Displaying a firearm in a defensive manner is NOT brandishing:
The Fifth District Court of Appeal of Florida wrote, “the mere display of a gun, or even pointing a gun at another’s head or heart without firing it, is not deadly force as a matter of law.” Jackson v. State 179 So. 3d 443 (Fla 5th DCA 2015).
This is why I hate this topic. As Miguel points out, it all depends on the persecutor. The protections in the law for a defensive gun display (DGD) are not as generous or spelled out as they are for a shoot.
That’s the point. One guy’s defensive display is another cop or prosecutor’s Simple Assault.
The protections should be better spelled out for DGDs.
If you are looking for a slam dunk against an overzealous prosecutor, even a fully righteous shoot isn’t going to stop them. They don’t care what the law says, they can always file charges. Ask George Zimmerman how that works. Sometimes, the process itself is the punishment.
So? That applies to whether the person can be charged with “use of deadly force”, not just brandishing, which is a totally different crime. Pulling a gun does not mean that you “used deadly force” against a person (no doubt someone tried to claim that it was at some point, hence the opinion). But they can and will charge you for “brandishing”, I think the main difference is whether you have an active reason to fear assault. If the crowd is just surrounding you and screaming at you and threatening to kill you, you don’t KNOW they are going to assault you, so it’s illegal to pull your gun out until they actually swing at you (stupid as that law is). But once someone hits you, you have immediate fear that they will do it again, and so you are less likely to be charged with brandishing. Of course I am not a lawyer, and it all depends on the exact circumstances, the prosecutor, the state laws, and of course the politics of the involved parties. In some places you cannot pull a gun at all unless you have reason to fear DEADLY force. Never mind that a couple of guys can easily beat a person to death or seriously maim them, and a mob is even worse. Unless they come at you with a knife or a gun, you may be in trouble if you even draw on them. It all depends on how good your lawyer is. I know that’s the way it is in England, and that’s for defending yourself at ALL, not just for a gun or a knife. Carrying a knife with the admitted intention of using it for defense in the UK is considered an admission of intended murder. You MIGHT get away with using your “utility knife” for defense, but only if the guy is attacking you with a large club or knife himself, and it would be extremely risky. Of course the gangs of immigrant thugs pay no attention to the law and routinely go around armed with knifes and clubs and even guns.
Looking at PA law, threatening someone with a gun is menacing which is Simple Assault. I’m not saying it’s a slam dunk, but it could be considered that.
Yes but if he was fearing for his life, it is fine. He surely knows that anti-trumpers are violent. And that one punches can end lives.
He clearly was justified, as a resident of PA
That is if you are in an argument with someone and pull a gun to intimidate them. I think once you’ve been struck by the other person already, your odds are much better. Which isn’t to say they might not TRY to charge a Trump supporter, but I think you could fight it. In this case they didn’t charge the guy at all, in spite of the chaos that resulted, which suggests that they didn’t think the charge would stick.
Call them what they are. They are not ‘punks,’ they are violent terrorists.