From Bearing Arms’ Cam Edwards:
A Wisconsin shopping mall that was home to a recent shooting that left eight people injured says it will start enforcing the facility’s “no guns allowed” policy by bringing in dogs trained to detect firearms. Mayfair Mall’s general manager says the Vapor Wake Public Safety Canine Detection Program will pair K9 units with mall security guards in an attempt to keep the mall gun free.
Raise your hand if it took you all of 5 seconds to mess with this carefully crafted plan. I am not sure what the dogs would target, but I imagine the combination of gun oil, burnt propellant and metal would trigger the pooch’s alarms. Now, we respect the law and if in Cheese State the signs carry the weight of law, you simply don’t carry in the mall. of course, the law never said anything about carrying dirty bore patches.
“Sir? please stop.”
“Why?”
“The dog says you are carrying a concealed firearm.”
“Sorry, your dog is wrong.”
“The dog is never wrong. You are packing.”
“I am not. Is this a formal accusation? because in not, you can go away”
“Sir, we need to pat you down.”
“You need to pat down the (Insert membership of minority group and gender) for guns? What kind of racist place is this?”
Or is confrontation is not your flavor, just drop the used patches all over the mall and watch the doggies lose their minds and the handler’s right behind.
Yes, I am an asshole.
I use RemOil as aftershave.
The only real issue with this sort of civic disobedience is that the mall has the absolute right to trespass you for any reason.
My guess is that if you don’t let them wand you and expose your carry weapon they will just ask you to leave. If you don’t they trespass you and then trespassing laws come into effect.
Sure, but Miguel is not suggesting trespass, he’s just suggesting adding noise to the signal. What he proposes is completely legal — there isn’t any law against carrying used bore patches, is there?
The right answer is for private businesses to be liable for damages caused by their insistence that customers be defenseless victims. That (and no legal enforcement of such signs beyond the rules of trespass) would be a reasonable first step. Eventually, discrimination against carrying defensive weapons should be treated the same way as discrimination against black people.
Blogger David Codrea actually wrote up a form to present to and get signed by whoever’s running “gun free zones”, whereby they assume full responsibility for your safety while on their premises and all legal/financial liability for any injury or death you sustain as a result of not being able to defend yourself.
It’s probably not legally enforceable, but it sends an appropriate message, and no corporation wants to risk taking on any more liability than is necessary.
Simple for me, I take my business elsewhere. It’s just one more nail in the coffin for the Malls.
When was the last time you visited one?
There is not a law against carrying spent brass either. Dispose of properly of course, or not…
Depends on your locale. Unless the law has changed, NJ residents can be arrested for illegally transporting firearms (a felony) for having a spent .22 casing under the floorboards of their car.
But this mall is in Wisconsin, so….
Drop a spent .22 or three in every trash can. The dogs will go nuts.
How long before bad guys learn to shoot security and the people waiting in the security lines? Also, personal injury attorneys need to get some good case law for holding businesses to the fire for enforcing their no gun signs and protecting patrons. The “our signs and no gun policy” really helped MGM after October 1, 2017 /save. These policies will go away real fast if business lose money. Of course, I’m sure this security theater will last as long as the memories do. Management ain’t paying for a gun sniffing dog forever the way malls are losing money.
Carry a Kiran, in the same pocket as your rem oil?
If the malls there are anything like the ones near me then ~ If a murdering gun abuser wanted to inflict pain and death all he would have to do is enter the mall stores from the back and simply fire out the front to do his damage without being pinched (or bitten) with his gun ~~~
Or do they have a huge enough surplus of dogs and handlers to cover inside, outside, and every possible entry ~ Or are guns already planted inside, or snuck in on a dog of their own, or…
What I’m saying is that while they’re hairdressing Miguel, the obvious choice (heh, heh), there would probably be a dozen ways to sneak a weapon past them without much thinking… Maybe by just dropping spent brass you could have a fun outing at the mall without spending a dime ~~ Or a day in jail.
This type of thing is exactly what needs to happen. Depending on how the dogs are trained, you can trigger a response simply because you did some reloading or are coming from the range.
When the dogs have dozens of false positives a day, and the people who are ID’d start complaining, management will suddenly find out the trained dogs are too costly, and they will purchase additional signs instead.
Also, just wait until the first time one of these dogs actually has physical contact with a patron of any sort. Lawsuit time! Someone did not actually think this through terribly well.
complaining ?
I think if a doggie comes up with a ‘false positive’ hit and the person decides to sue the pants off the mall and the doggie company for defamation of character etc., etc the mall will drop this like it’s radioactive.
And if you and I could think up of such lawsuits on short notice……….
Back when I was stationed in Germany we used to get weed, boil it in water, then mop the floors in with the barracks the water. It was fun to watch the dogs come into the building.
A little dab of Hoppes #9 behind the ears works well…
Behind the dogs’ ears, too. Watch them go crazy on each other.
Why didn’t I think of that?
But, but, but, the drug warriors said that their drug sniffing dogs would never be misused…….
I may be violating the “don’t be a dick” rule, but…
At one time, our city put up metal detectors at City Hall. State law preempts gun legislation, and it wasn’t a criminal act to carry at City Hall.
So, I went in with an empty holster and a mag in a mag holder. Metal detector tending persons (MDTP henceforth) clutch their pearls and throw a minor fit.
Next time: spare mag in my pocket. MDTP throw a fit – “You can’t bring explosives in!!!1!” So, I go into a detailed explanation that powder is a propellant, not an explosive.
Next time: Pocket full of rounds. MDTP throws a fit again. I said, “Don’t you remember our last discussion?” “Well… you can’t bring live rounds in!!1! What if you stashed a gun in here earlier.” “How did it get it past you paragons of security?”
Next time: I have THEM pass an unloaded firearm for which I had no ammo through security after they briefly looked in my briefcase. I’d scheduled a meeting with the assistant City Manager to explain to him what a waste of money that security was. There were several card opened doors with no metal detectors among other ways I could see to defeat it easily. It was all for show. I was also going to show him what security had passed through. As I started my polite diatribe, he said, “I know it’s worthless. It’s a waste of money. But City Council said we have to do it.” I decided not to give him a dirty diaper by showing him what security had passed through.
So, I really like your mall idea, Miguel. 🙂