The Build Back Better package includes tax incentives to help purchase an EV.
How would you use a discount of up to $12,500 toward an electric vehicle?
— Secretary Pete Buttigieg (@SecretaryPete) November 1, 2021
The last truck I bought was a 2000 Toyota Tundra with the 4.7 V-8 and 55,000 miles.
That’s not a typo, 55,000 miles.
Twenty-one years old and runs like new.
That replaced my 2003 Silverado, which only got replaced because 13 if it’s 18 years were spent in snow country and it literally rusted through in places.
My Ram is three years old and just rolled over 24,000 miles. It’s gonna last another 20 years at this rate.
How long does a Tesla last?
The battery is under warranty for 8 years or 50,000 miles, but most Tesla don’t last that long.
Hybrids approaching 10 years old have no resale value because the batteries are near dead and can cost nearly as much as the vehicle to replace.
The average age of a US car is 12 years old.
So they want to give you credit for a very expensive car that needs frequent replacement.
Essentially not the sort of car the average American buys to hold onto for 12 years or more.
This is a tax giveaway to the rich under the color of an economic improvement.
I’d tell Buttigieg to eat my ass but he’d probably enjoy that.
This whole administration is dog shit.
Um, no.
Tesla battery warranty depends on model but is at least 100k miles. And why do you say they don’t last that long? Mine is 8 years old and doing just fine. Most Teslas are not that old, but that’s simply because not that many were sold 8+ years ago.
Eh, cut him some slack.
I always get a charge out J.Kb’s posts, don’t you?
Tesla is a luxury brand-not for us plebeians. The car for the masses will be some all electric copy of a Prius or some smaller car. Underpowered and cheaply made with knockoff chinese batteries a 50,000 mile life span will probably be generous. At least Volkswagen Beatles last nearly forever if they don’t rust out.
I predict auto companies will adopt policies requiring that you pay for your car service rather than let you own one out right.
I checked — the cheapest EV is a Mini Cooper. It has a 100 mile range, and costs $30000+. With that range, I couldn’t visit half my relatives.
With that range, we couldn’t go to the doctor and back!
The top three important facts regarding EV’s: 1. The Grid. 2. The Grid. 3. The Grid.
It doesn’t have enough power to even remotely approach being sufficient to charge EV’s if they were to become widely owned, let’s say 50% or so of the total fleet in this country. I may have the details a bit wrong, but I recall reading a very data-heavy essay over at Watts Up With That a few months ago which said that if we started building, as in actually breaking ground for, a dozen new nuclear generating plants a year, it would still be decades before that kind of capacity could be generated. And it sure ain’t gonna happen with wind and solar.
I’m not sure the grid is really that big an issue. Electric cars and trucks would add around 20% to total electricity use in the USA. Perhaps it would increase it more substantially if you consider only residential use. The big issue actually is the raw materials for the batteries.
For a detailed analysis of this and other parts of the infamous “Green New Deal”, see my article here: https://ncc-1776.org/tle2019/tle1012-20190317-04.html
Oh, the grid is most certainly an issue. Not necessarily *the* issue, but certainly *an* issue. Especially when you consider the peak in demand you can expect to see between 5-6pm weekdays.
It’s going to hit non-uniformly also; depending on both population density and age of the infrastructure. States that have high population density areas, and have generally neglected their infrastructure, are likely to be the most problematic ones. Think of states that routinely have black- and brown-outs during heat waves and weather events. *cough* *California* *cough*
No. The big issue is the end-distribution system can’t handle too many EVs charging. That would be the neighborhood distribution system. A neighborhood of 20 houses can’t support 6 EVs charging at the same time.
Especially in places that haven’t hardened and upgraded their distribution systems. Places like California that are already having problems dealing with brownouts and blackouts due to regular electricity draw.
That sounds plausible. It can be made less of an issue by timing the charging so they don’t all coincide, and/or by reducing the charge rate. Tesla can do both, though it doesn’t yet have a system for coordinating the charging of a collection of cars to scatter it over the night.
I looked into time of day based rates in NH, but they aren’t quite worth the extra monthly cost. If I still had a commute and it were 2x what I was doing at the time, it would be.
Just what I want, a car that will tell me when I’m allowed to refuel it.
I can’t stand Tesla’s for the walled garden approach the company takes. Same reason I can’t stand Apple.
Do you use NHEC? I’m torn on if the monthly membership fee is worth it.
One of the “best” (individual definitions of “best” vary) vehicles I owned was a ’79 Toyota pickup. Not even an SR5.
4-cylinder engine, all mechanical, no electronics. You could take it entirely apart with a wrench and a screwdriver, and if you happened to drop something, it hit the ground underneath.
It was almost a quarter-century old when I got it, with (we think) 180k miles. Why the uncertainty? The odometer was 5 whole digits; every 100k it rolls back over to zero, and we don’t know if it was on its second or third trip around. Either is feasible.
When it finally died of a severely-cracked engine block, it was pushing three decades of use, I had added about another 80k miles including multiple moves (mostly hauling furniture for friends), and until then had been dead reliable. During that time, any parts that needed replacing, I did myself, in my driveway, with a basic set of tools.
No EV currently on the market can match that. Not even close.
No new car on the market can match that.
Half the cars designed today are a 5 hour service and removal of the plastic, one time use intake manifold to change a sensor on the back of the block.
Until I reach the vaunted years of old guy who is old enough to pay someone else to fix his own vehicle, I’ll be sticking with things made around 2000 or earlier.
“This whole administration is dog shit.”
Clearly not true. Double-Barrel Joe is _batshit_, not dog shit. 8>)
I bought an 06 Tundra new. When I sold it in 2017 it had 328K miles. I bought a 2015 Tundra july 2017 with 23thousand miles. My lovely wife drives it way more than I do. I plan on keeping it til it dies and hopefully by then I will have something older fixed up and paid for to replace it. EV s were made to make liberals feel better because plugging it in and charging it with invisible electricity is better than pulling into an evil gas station and filling up with evil oil company noxious gasoline….
Like solar panels, ev is not practical OR ecomomical for us deplorables.
The question is “How would I use $12,500…?”
I wouldn’t. It is not like I would purchase an electric vehicle, and get a check in the mail for $12.5K. I expect the dealership to see that money, not me. And, if the vehicle is simply discounted, I will not be “using” the incentive. Finally, even if the Feds did send me a check, it would go against the purchase of the car, not for a luxury vacation.
And, it does not take into account any significant price inflation because demand suddenly went up.
Finally, they only way that I would benefit from any kind of Federal Incentive is if I was going to purchase that item anyway. Not in the market for a vehicle that needs to be plugged in, nor do I anticipate doing so any time soon.
This is pandering to, and marketing to the low information, math challenged, children out there.
Quite right.
“Fed gov offering $12.5k incentive for EV purchase” is followed closely by “Average price of new EV jumps $10k, boosting auto industry revenues”.
The question isn’t, “Why would they do that?” The question is, “Why wouldn’t they do that?”
After all, it’s not like the average customer is paying any more or getting a better or worse vehicle than they would have before.
They are lying. There is no discount, there is a payment to the manufacturer and/or dealer and you will get the tax bill with interest.
“Hybrids approaching 10 years old have no resale value because the batteries are near dead and can cost nearly as much as the vehicle to replace.”
Hm. My 2001 Prius probably has no resale value, what with all the wear and tear, but at the 10-year mark the traction battery was still going strong (it finally needed replacing about 3 years ago). The wimpy little 12V battery (a unique and somewhat expensive thing) has been replaced a few times over the years.
But, then, the Prius is designed to protect the battery, so the same NiMH technology that lasted a few months in a laptop could last well over a decade in a car. (Try modding the car to use more of the battery’s capacity, and working life falls off a cliff.)
I’m hoping to get a few more years of use out of the old Prius… but, after relocating to the Tennessee countryside a bit under two years ago, I promptly ran out and bought a 2017 Tundra with 95K miles on it, because there are things you just can’t do with a Prius. I expect to get a good many years out of the Tundra, too. And it may come to pass that I’ll be looking for a well-used big powerful pickup at some point, should we start having a need to move large machinery around.
I have a 2000 GMC with 275,000 miles. It runs well, and has not needed a lot of work, just batteries, wheel bearings, tires and a fuel pump, water pump, and alternator. Compared to my 1978 model and the 1995 lemon, it has been shockingly reliable.
Why dont they skip the tax incentive and use it to build a more robust electrical infrastructure. You know, something that is kinda a precursor to having more electric vehicles let alone would help to address problems like service loss/disruption/brown out from high usage, scheduled blackouts, etc etc…
Nah makes too much sense
What powers the EV charging stations?