1. I want to know who will be the first person shot and killed by the NYPD for looking at the sky without the proper paperwork.

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2. This is actually a parking permit / proof of paid entry into the park, rather than a “looking at the sky” permit.

   Put down the Gadsden Flag and step out of the Wookiee suit.

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3. Ish is correct.

   Those are all NY State parks, and they generally charge a fee for parking. The parking areas close a certain number of hours after sunset. If you were to leave your car there, it could be ticketed or towed.

   This permit legally allows you to leave your car there well past closing. That is all.

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   1. And if you could legally leave your car there overnight without a special permit, they’d all turn into RV camps and open-air sewers for the “unhoused” within forty-eight hours. (Cf. San Francisco, CA; Portland, OR)

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      1. You should know me better than to think I’m all Wookiesuit.

         My problem is this:

         I completely understand that the goverment doesn’t want parks to become homeless encampments. But this permitting process smacks of the “hard and fast rule that has to be applied because we stripped law enforcement and the courts of the ability to make any sort of subjective judgement.” Which is a general problem in society.

         $35 for a season of regular stargazing might be reasonable. $35 for me to take my kid one night during an approved window is steep and will probably dissuade people. The cops should be able to tell the difference between a dad and a couple of kids with a telescope or binoculars during a meteor shower and a bum with a makeshift tarp shelter and a cardboard box. But they law says the police can’t, so everybody has to have a permit, no matter what.

         I’ll admit that I’m a little shitty about this, because I lived in Rapid City, South Dakota. When the weather was nice, we’d put the telescope in the back of the truck on top of a lot of padding, and drive about an hour east on HWY 44 to Badlands National Park or Buffalo Gap National Grassland and just pull off the highway at one of the road turnoffs and set up and stare at the stars. You were over the horizon from Rapid City, and about 20 miles east of Scenic, SD, which was the only artificial light source in the area. Once you shut off the truck lights, it was a wash of starts like you can’t see almost anywhere else. Almost zero percent humidity, not a cloud in the sky.

         No permits or fees or anything needed. Just don’t do damage to the park, stay on the trail and that’s it.

         In New York, to enjoy nature, you have to get permission and a permit because rules. Even if there is a reason, it just seems stifling.

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         1. Tragedy of the commons hits urban areas a lot harder than rural ones, it’s just maths. Assuming the same percentage of people will take advantage of the commons, then you’re going to find it happens more often in a city of ten million than a town of ten thousand.

            I do agree with you that a competent Peace Officer should be able to use his or her own discretion to let a father and son with a telescope go about their business; tell a couple of teenagers making out in the backseat to hurry home before curfew; tell a quiet homeless guy to clear out before morning; and throw the book at the guy selling meth out of his truck…

            Unfortunately, statists (of the left and right) have long chased most Peace Officers out of the ranks, replacing them with Law Enforcers. I suspect that’s the underlying issue here.

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         2. “In New York, to enjoy nature, you have to get permission and a permit because rules. Even if there is a reason, it just seems stifling.”

            I am not defending NY in any way here, but in the metro NY/Long Island area, if you want to see stars you have to get away from the light pollution. That means the beaches on the south shore, or a park on the north shore. And, since those parks charge a fee for day use, I think a reasonable fee for a season of nighttime use is not unreasonable. There is a cost incurred for labor, police, etc… at those parking areas as well.

            On one hand, I think the fee is ridiculous, but on the other hand, if you want to do something, you should earn it.

4. It’s really not better to argue that there is a fee to park at a STATE PARK.

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   1. State parks cost money to operate. What could be better than taking that operating revenue directly from the people using it?

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      1. 100% correct. User fees is a much better way to fund the operation of State parks than taxes. If you are an occasional user, you pay less.

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