Bringing you news from the Left today.
Carleton was a shop owner in California, who hung a rainbow flag out front of her store. Up until a couple of days ago, no one knew who she was. She was just a little shop owner. She liked rainbows, was LGBT positive, and had nine kids of her own. No one seemed to dislike her. Until a few days prior to her shooting, when a douche-canoe named Travis ripped down her flag and said some rather hateful things. When she put up a new one, he came back and shot her.
At this point, there isn’t anymore to the narrative. The official reason for the shooting was “anti-LGBT hate crime.” Near as I can tell from the reading I’ve done, there was no specific beef between Travis and Carleton, beyond her love of everyone. He posted a lot of off-color stuff, rather hateful, on his social media. Beyond the usual Right commentary on abortion being bad, he also talked a lot about how sinful and war-mongering someone was if they were pro-abortion or pro-LGBT.
On Aug 18th, Lauri Carleton was shot dead at her California shop. The only thing the media has told us is that it was likely due to her rainbow Pride flag, which has hung in her shop window for several years. This year, though, it had been torn down several times. She’s not the only one, just the most recent.
While I don’t believe “hate crimes” deserve any special notice over other crimes, I do know they exist. Crimes committed simply because of the hatred of the person performing them are, to me at least, especially heinous. When the only reason behind a crime is the color of someone’s skin, the way they style their hair, the bumper sticker on their car, then we have a problem. That problem extends down both sides of the aisle, pretty much equally.
But Hagar, you say, the Right doesn’t condone these actions, and these lone nuts just do their thing and the media paints them as Right leaning. Don’t feel alone; the Left doesn’t condone the actions of people who attack others, either. It’s always a few nuts that roll out of the packet, and the media paints them in whatever way is going to sell the most newspapers.
I am standing up against this hate. Why? Because it’s wrong. Someone hanging a flag outside their store has very politely pointed out that they are pro-LGB. If you dislike that, you now have a clear marker that tells you to avoid that store. Someone saying they will not cater to gay weddings has done the same. Both are allowed, and both can be avoided if one feels the need.
What does not need to happen is tearing down those signs or flags, and defecating on them.
If you want to buy a flag, then burn it, that’s your prerogative. Feel free. That’s none of my business, beyond my noting that I probably don’t like you and shouldn’t hang around with you. It’s a protest, it’s permitted, and it’s a douchey thing to do. But it’s legal, and protected. Have at.
Do not, however, go onto someone’s property (be it business or private) and take down a decoration, destroy it, then desecrate it. That’s the opposite of buying it yourself. It’s theft, it’s assault. It may border on battery.
Standing on the sidewalk outside a store that’s doing nothing more than hanging a flag (American, Gadsden, rainbow, whatever) and screaming threatening invective, slurs, and hatred, that’s wrong. I’m not sure it’s legal, to be honest, but even if it is, it’s nasty. I wouldn’t want it outside my home or business, and I wouldn’t want it outside someone else’s either. I don’t care what they believe.
When people on the Left and the Right stay silent over actions like this, over burning American flags, Gadsden flags, rainbow flags, over threats of violence and disruption of business, they are tacitly telling their friends and family that it’s okay. They are saying that they won’t step in, that perhaps they’re even supporting such actions. Certainly in the minds of the few twisted individuals who break and murder innocent people, that silence is interpreted as support.
Stand up against this kind of (expletive erased). I don’t care who does it. I don’t even care what their reason is. Stand up against it, and stop it from happening. I don’t want the next flag owner who is shot to be you, or me, or someone I know and love.
Angry and frustrated,
Hagar
America used to be “you do you and I will do me” different opinions , different ways of living as long as they didn’t harm others, no one cared. 8 years of obammy spawning identity politics and constant media attention gets “hate” crime…. The true America found it all reprehensible… with our help it will return to that..
I have a real problem with the concept of hate crime, in particular to increase criminal penalties based on someone’s opinion. That way ultimately ends in punishment for wrongthink.
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It also moves us (further) towards a society in which whether a crime has been committed depends not on the act but on the person carrying it out.
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I find both prospects abhorrent.
“Don’t feel alone; the Left doesn’t condone the actions of people who attack others, either.” I’m going call this out as not true. The left media celebrates when the right gets hurt. I remember back on 9-11 hearing that we had it coming and deserved it. Go look at the coverage of the assholes that tried to end Rittenhouse. Andy Ngo getting the shit beat out of him. Anytime a natural disaster strikes a midwest state, or Florida. The left is evil and hateful, and celebrate when my side gets hurt.
The problem is the media is not real and is not representative of real people. Justl like all the media focus on the negatives and extreme of the right as if it were the norm, the media focus and positive take on the extremes of the left is not real.
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It is purposefully distorting our perceptions and manipulating us.
It’s not just the media, it’s the politicians, the twittersphere, the oligarchs, all of em. The left are terrible human beings.
Agree with the exception it isn’t just the left dude. Hagar is right, both sides are so pitted at each other they can’t see the forest for the trees.
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People on the left and people on the right will both have a literally 180 degree opposite opinion with no relevant data or facts to make one side right or not, and both sides believe they are correct and that the other side is wrong and/or bad for having the opposite opinion. So who is right? They both can’t be.
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People on both sides have looked me in the eyes and gone “yea I get that their opinion is just different than mine, but they are wrong because they are the other side.” Like dude you are missing the point! You just barely considered it and rejected it because it made you uncomfortable that it is possible NO ONE is right!
You don’t get to use the “but both sides do it” fallacy with me. The left takes victory laps when a noted conservative dies. They celebrate when bad things happen to red states. I’m not going to waste my time dredging up MSM videos of them doing so. I have much better things to do.
Bro, it is not a fallacy, it happens and is real. We are pitted against one another constantly for no reason other than division. Shitty people do shitty things. What more needs to be said? People being shitty is apolitical.
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MSM and social media as we have appeared to have agreed does not represent reality and is structured around outrage and traffic generation. So why do you on one had say they are full of shit then on the other go look at all these people the MSM and social media are serving to me doing a bad thing, getting my ass all fired up, and confirming my bias with no further critical thought given to that? You can’t say the MSM are all scumbags and liars then just keep lapping up the bullshit they feed you.
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The loudest and most screechy don’t represent reality. Those are the people you are talking about. Step back and see that. That is what I, and I think Hagar are saying, and I think the point we are both making is the more unwilling people are to do that, the more hope is lost of any kind of understanding, resolution, and/or live and let live.
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I think there was plenty of happiness, high fives, thanks for the free supreme court seat, and schadenfruede going around on the right when Ruth Bader Ginsberg died.
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I’ll never give up my guns. I can also see that a mom scared about her children’s safety thinks that getting rid of the guns is the best way to secure that. Will I compromise? NO! I can still see another point of view though.
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I’m not saying be all hippy dippy whoa man like we are all children of mother geaea or anything like that. I am not saying be ignorant of the bad people on any side of the political spectrum. I am saying that the extremes are thin and fewer than we think but get the most airtime for any number of reasons to include dividing and outraging us and for the most craven profit driven ones.
It’s not a difference of opinion. It’s literally them celebrating the right suffering. The right doesn’t do the same. Show me a major right of center personality that celebrates the when something bad happens to blue areas and I’ll show you half a dozen lefties that celebrate when something happens to red areas.
And this is why I don’t really think this is going to get fixed. I talk the same way to Left friends as I do to you guys, and I get the exact same rhetoric. “They cheer when we’re hurt.” Both sides point to things, people, incidents. So long as that’s the focus, rather than a part of a greater focus on the country as a whole, nothing will ever get better. Are there bad actors on the Left? Sure. I could and do easily point to the people who are abusing Biden by propping him up and using him like a ventriloquist’s dummy. I could point to the thousands of people who are attempting to destroy our fundamental and Constitutionally protected rights. But I can also point at the people who want Trump in office so bad that they can’t even admit that it *could* be a bad idea, never mind that it IS a bad idea. I see the cults of personality that happen in the Right as much as in the Left, and it makes me sick.
Birdog, this isn’t specifically pointed at you. It’s just me voicing my concerns, my upsets.
I’ve heard it said as of late, that “Silence is Violence” by people who insist that I am wrong for not publicly joining in with their social issues and positions. The assertion is that I don’t have a right to remain distant and therefore silent with people I disagree with. My societal standard of “Live and let live” is now a hate crime according to the leftist activist. I reserve the right to remain silent on non-heterosexual initiatives in order to keep the peace. My decision to do this is judged as bigotry.
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I disagree. I will continue to remain publicly silent on this societal issue until I am not allowed to remain silent. At that time, I will stand up and say to those who oppose my silence, “Silence is NOT Violence But You’re Non-Silence is Violence.” while looking them straight in the eye, unmovable.
Silence is violence at times. When witnesses and victims don’t stand up against assault and battery and rape, but are cowed into silence, that’s violence. I hear what you’re saying, but it has the feel that you cherry picked the comment so it would fit your own response.
I’m sorry, was I supposed to address all the aspects of your post? You said,
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“When people on the Left and the Right stay silent over actions like this, over burning American flags, Gadsden flags, rainbow flags, over threats of violence and disruption of business, they are tacitly telling their friends and family that it’s okay” .
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My Response: This presupposes that there are only two acceptable responses, and this does not reflect reality. There are more than two options, other than the two you mentioned, there is the element of ‘time’. It takes time to engage very serious issues, even if a person adamantly believes a great wrong has been committed, such as the case you mentioned, I barely have time to handle all the irons I have in the fire, so I let things which are great wrongs against people go without any action or time designated because there isn’t any to give.
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Besides the element of time, there are distance and familiarity elements. The case you mention I’ve not heard of and is of great distance from my world. I see no way in which any effort from me would be in any way beneficial to those in need. In these elements of reality, my silence is reflecting my innocents of the situation and the inability to know the facts to form an opinion and a plan of action, again which takes considerable time and money. And as far as burning flags of any type, so what, what action is there which will accomplish any good thing? Which leads to risk. Risk is a factor to consider. You understand I’m sure, which is why you don’t use your real name here or anywhere else on the web. It’s risky isn’t it? You’re smart to take such preventative actions, wisdom at work.
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You said, “They are saying that they won’t step in, that perhaps they’re even supporting such actions. Certainly, in the minds of the few twisted individuals who break and murder innocent people, that silence is interpreted as support.”
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My Response: By being silent, I am not saying anything. I ‘can’ imagine what my life would be like IF I had to take into account what every segment of society thought about my opinion on criminal things that happened to them, or they did to others. However, when I read what you posted about this person being murdered, and after assuming it was for the reason you voiced, I thought ‘Insanity’ is coming out of the woodwork more and more, to the point no one is safe. Now, I am not in any way in favor of the societal issues which were important to this victim, in fact I am opposed to what she stood for. But that doesn’t mean my silence on the subject means what you implied that it means. I hope law enforcement puts the person behind bars for life.
You said: “Stand up against this kind of (expletive erased). I don’t care who does it. I don’t even care what their reason is. Stand up against it and stop it from happening. I don’t want the next flag owner who is shot to be you, or me, or someone I know and love.”
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My Response: What exactly qualifies as “Stand Up”? Making a comment here on this blog post? Having a beneficial interaction with you right now? How about the statements I made here recently in my area of the scrublands about “Intolerance within the Central Florida social communities”, or the time I spent with victims of violence at the range, teaching young women my daughter’s age to stop the threat in a domestic situation without breaking the law. I could go on for hours here.
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You say stand up against it and stop it from happening. That is a huge undertaking in today’s world of social unrest. It’s not like the insane criminal element of society gives us any warnings as to who they are and who their intended victims will be. What you propose is proactive preventative action. If I stop a rainbow flag burning, am I breaking the law? Do I become the next target? Have I increased personal jeopardy?
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A wise man sees trouble coming from afar and removes himself from interaction until such time as he is able to address the foolishness effectively and decisively as to benefit all involved. His silence is not violence, but wisdom learned from experience.
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You said I cherry picked part of your post ‘to fit my own response’. Are you implying I twisted it out of context? Built a strawman argument?
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I simply stated that my silence is never violence, and most non-silence is violence and I address all such accusations against me, eye to eye, unmovable. The LGBTQP demographic is not something I will engage in, because I believe it’s an abomination to procreation and humanity. You said my statement ‘has the feel’ a certain feel that I “Cherry Picked it to fit my response”.
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I selected the one part where you ‘seemed to produce a feel that the readers of your post were not doing enough and that we should do more, and that silence was condemnable. Some very direct personal assumptions in the negative if you ask me. Could be construed as signaling some crazed lunatic to attack us for silent compliance.
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Other criminal things I’m silent about but have opinions which I express only when home. Black on Black murder. Non-heterosexual violence, men on men violence. Women on women violence. Any kind of women committing violence. Youth violence, woke violence for or against, religious violence for or against— I could go on.
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To succeed in life, one must calculate ‘Risk” accurately and form several plans based on the potential outcomes that are likely. In my business there are topics which are detrimental to success in today’s world. I use my real name online and I have accounted for the risks for doing so. I am prepared, to stand, unmovable, face to face. By the way I hate Cherries and I definitely don’t pick them. Every time I see a cherry tree I turn and walk away in….. silence.
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Greatly appreciate the interaction Hagar, I consider it an honor to engage with you anytime.
Violence is an action, silence is lack of action. They are not and can not be equated.
“While I don’t believe “hate crimes” deserve any special notice over other crimes, I do know they exist. “
I agree totally.
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“When the only reason behind a crime is the color of someone’s skin, the way they style their hair, the bumper sticker on their car, then we have a problem. “
OK, prove it in court, and I think the person committing the crime should get a harsher sentence. And, therein lies the problem with “special class” laws. (Otherwise known as hate crime laws). Two guys get into a bar fight because one is ogling the other’s girlfriend. They are both white, no crime. They are both black, no issue. One is white, the other black, and suddenly it is a hate crime. Same incident, only difference is skin color. Suddenly it is a “hate crime?” Nope.
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“When people on the Left and the Right stay silent over actions like this, … … … they are tacitly telling their friends and family that it’s okay. They are saying that they won’t step in, that perhaps they’re even supporting such actions.”
And… you lost me there… Sorry, silence is not equivalent to condoning or supporting the behavior. In fact, the riots celebrating a criminal drug addict’s death in 2020 would not have happened if more people remained silent.
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Reality is I know nothing, not a damned thing, about the shooting you mentioned aside from what you wrote here. I will not make any assumptions about the intent of the shooter, nor will I automatically condemn their actions without more information. That does not mean I condone violence in any way. What it means is I have no idea why the woman was shot, and I cannot rule out self defense with the information provided.
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I am old enough to remember when Richard Jewell was a bomber, not a hero. I remember when George Zimmerman was a racist murderer, not a victim of violence requiring use of deadly force in self defense. I remember when Kyle Rittenhouse was a white supremacist intent on killing peaceful protesters. I remember when questioning a third rate actor’s claims of racially motivated attack was considered verboten. I have been fooled by the news media and social media too often to speak out.
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Will I condemn bias, prejudice, hate, racism, etc…? Yes, I will do that. It is bad. It gets in the way of normal social interaction. Will I condemn specific actions taken by an individual, when I do not know that individual personally? When I was not a witness to the event?
Nope. Not a chance. In fact, I will likely question the narrative, against all the pressure of social media.
Ok, this morning I finally had time to attempt to learn all that I could on Laura Carleton of Cedar Glenn California.
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Laura Carleton was an exceptionally remarkable person, woman, wife and mother. Describing her as an asset to her community is an understatement. I have many friends which are exactly as this wonderful person was during her lifetime, before she was murdered by a completely insane religious fanatic. I won’t use his name, but this evil person totally misunderstood the truths of the God of the Bible, used those truths out of context and manipulated through illogical distortions which only a madman could appreciate, in order to form and then justify his insanity.
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The following source provides a detailed comprehensive report on this tragic event – https://heavy.com/news/travis-ikeguchi/
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I will assert that this murderer today knows how grossly distorted his system of belief was because the god he thought he was serving with his evil, turned out to not be the God he had to give an accounting to just moments after law enforcement ended his pathetic misguided life. The truth of Jehovah God is that He will judge all things, not us. He does not instruct us to act on His behalf as a Judge. Thou shall not ‘Murder’ is a law of the True God. This murderer did not know that God but today he does and is in the hell created for people like him.