Already some that purport being in our side are asking for the rest to come to a compromise on the Second Amendment. Apparently they believe they can control the appetite of hyenas and have them eat a side of peas too.
Let us remember that the last great congressional effort in which a “compromise” was reached gave the so-called Assault Weapons ban. It set us back a decade and did nothing to protect people.
Why does ‘compromise’ always involve us losing something?
“Comprimise” is what AIDS does to your immune system. I’m willing to come to a half-way agreement if shooting ranges can be added to every public school and firearms or airgun marksmanship added to the PE curriculum.
Amen 🙂
Like who? Doesn’t anyone ever learn ANYTHING from history??
Those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Or something like that. It’s been a long day.
Next fud that suggests I compromise anything about guns is going to get an ear full. Screw compromise. Congress caused this mess by forcing our teachers to be defenseless while teaching our kids. Way past time for we the people to tell the feds to sit down and shut up.
If you are referring to my idea, please post the whole idea, I would be interested in how others thought of it. I know it’s not ideal.
Go ahead and post it.
I would rather you posted it so more people would read it, but here is my idea, look at it as a whole, not just individual pieces that people may or may not like. I do not blame the guns for this tragedy, nor do I think that my ideas would have stopped it, but the public will be looking for a scapegoat to blame for this and they will blame the guns. Changes are going to come of this and I fear that they will not be good, we need to have pro-gun people involved in the conversation. So, here is my 5 point idea:
1. Allow mental heath care workers to report unstable people without fear of HIPAA
2. End all “gun free zones”
3.Ban magazines over 17 for handgun, over 30 for rifle
4.National reciprocity for CCW
5. Back ground checks for private sales
You are thinking the negotiation on the principle that both parties will negotiate in good faith. The Gun Control people will not do so. The best way to predict future behavior is to look at past behavior and every time we negotiated in good faith because the swore up on a stack of bibles that this would be the last time they would ask for anything, the barely waited for the ink to be dry and say “This may not solve the problem but it is a good first step.”
You want to make deals with the people that have no compunctions in supporting laws that would allow mass incarcerations of US Citizens, have called for the intervention of state family services on families whose father is a gun activist like any of us but happened to blog about his 2 year old not wanting to eat his peas and having to tell the child he was not excused to leave the table until at least he ate half of what was served. You want to deal with people that are making lists of bloggers to send to the FBI and have us investigated and possibly arrested for “Treason against the State” a term that does not exist anywhere in our Constitution or laws but sounds good to their followers and scary to those less informed.
As for your specific points:
#1 is a lot more complex than that and you run the risk of dealing with a mental health worker that thinks gun owners are mentally unstable by default, like the guy from CSGV who wanted to call family services on AntiTango.
#3 Why 17 rounds are OK but not 18 for gun? Why 30 are OK for rifle but not 32? It is just plain Feel_good BS.
#5 Only after they demand to have background checks on used books…and then only maybe. On principle I feel insulted that you even demand that the Gov meddle on two constitutional rights ion one hit: Private Property and guns.
I have no problems with the others.
1.What defines an unstable person? Anti-gunners have stated that I am unstable because I own a gun and have a permit to carry it. Exactly what will get a person on this list and what can they do to challenge it if placed on this list?
2. Gun free zones aren’t and never have been
3. What exactly will this accomplish? Most magazines that carry more than 15 handgun rounds are prone to jamming, same for more than 30 rounds of rifle ammo. I shoot a lot and my carry magazines are 15 round for handgun and 30 for rifle because the others are just too prone to jamming. Not sure how limiting magazines is going to help since those unfamiliar with guns tend to use the larger magazines and have stopped their attack because of jammed magazines.
4. I think we can get this without giving up any more of our rights
5. Define private sale. Most of the anti-gunners would define my brother and I trading guns as a private sale. So to trade guns we would both have to pay a fee and go through a background check again. Both of us are permit holders and have gone through countless background checks. Now you want me to jump through more hoops? Besides how are you going to enforce this without a registry? How are you going to know who owns what without keeping a log? Every gun registry in history has led to confiscation. Every one. But I’m supposed to believe that the gun banning fools in congress aren’t going to use it to confiscate guns. Besides do you have any clue how inaccurate the class 3 registry currently is? So suppose I can’t produce a gun they say I own because their records are wrong? What I end up in jail because I can’t prove their records are wrong? Have you really thought this out?
I have researched the history of gun control in this country. Every discussion we have ends with us surrendering more of our rights and with criminals getting more power. We gave in to background checks but it didn’t lower crime rates, we gave up new class 3 guns and it did nothing to lower crime rates, we give and give and give and all we get is them demanding more. I’m done giving and think it is way past time to start taking back. They took guns out of schools and our kids end up dead. They ban guns from malls and our wives end up targets of deranged madmen. They demonize me by calling me a hidden criminal who carries a loaded hidden gun. They call in man with a gun reports to have me harassed. They write articles in the paper saying I’m looking for a war because I own an “assault weapon” but can’t define what makes a gun an assault weapon. They say semi-automatic rifles aren’t good for self defense but have no problem with every police car in America having one in it. They don’t want a conversation, they want us to disarm and shut up. I’m done shutting up. The gun control movement has blood on their hands and it is past time to start pointing it out.
1. Your mental health care provider would determine that, if you don’t see a psychiatrist than it wouldn’t even apply to you.
2. Yes, gun free zones are free killing zones for evil people, they need to go.
3. I agree, arbitrary numbers, but the antis want a magazine limit, in a compromise you need to give up something. I picked 17 based on a glock 17 and 30 because its the standard for AR’s
4. More good people with guns
5. Yes, that would be a private sale, allow everyone to use the FBI instant check system, it would take minutes, and no I don’t think it should have a charge. And no, no registration.
Yes, I am assuming the other side would negotiate in good faith, maybe that’s naive. There will be people on both sides that will not compromise at all, but there are many in the middle that will. Can we all agree that the wrong people with guns and the right people without guns is the problem? That’s what I’m trying to suggest changing.
Scott, your last paragraph has win written all over it! Well, they all do, but especially the last one.
I think his point with 17 and 30 was to make them high enough to be pointless, but still provide a limit, for the anti-gunners.
I don’t like #5. It would be difficult if not impossible to actually enforce, and actually enforcing it would put us about 3 steps past an Orwellian state.
Kev I know you are on our side and I’m not saying this to pick on you but……..I am done giving up our rights. They lied and people died. They aren’t willing to admit they were wrong and they aren’t interested in giving back any rights they have trampled on. They continue to demand concessions from us when their “solutions” have caused the problems in the first place. No law they can come up with is going to rid the world of evil. Their logic is flawed and they refuse to admit it. They aren’t going to accept a limit on magazines or gun type or any other damn thing. They will push and push and push until our right to bear arms is gone. Murder will still exist, suicide will still exist and evil will still exist and they won’t admit they were wrong and restore our rights. I’m done backing up. I remember to 1990’s and the ink wasn’t even dry on the brady bill before they were demanding we give up more rights because the brady bill wasn’t working.
Every time they open their mouth I’m going to let them have it. I’m going to continue to pound media blogs with facts and truths. Public opinion has been moving back in our direction for the last 10 years. Despite the anti’s lying and distorting polls, gun sales are through the roof. Concealed carry applications are up, sales are up and more people are buying guns than ever before. People want the truth and it is past time we started delivering it. They claim we are dancing in blood if we defend ourselves but they get day or weeks to bash us before we even start to speak the truth. I’m done being a gentleman and fighting fair. I’ve read their “Rules for radicals” play book and they will fight as dirty as they need to to win. Them winning even an inch will leave us closer to being disarmed and more vulnerable than ever.
I get why some gun owners are willing to “give in on black rifles” because my father was that way. It took me actually taking him out shooting one before he came around. Bow hunting isn’t my thing either but I’ll be damned if you will ever hear me speak out about it. We have to show a united front. Any crack they can find in our solidarity they will exploit to the fullest. Show them a united front 100 million gun owners strong and they will back down. They make a lot of noise but honestly they aren’t that big. Most of the groups are made up of the same handful of members. So even though there are 30 or so anti-gun groups they are all comprised of the same 30-50 people. That united front is going to take work on our part though. We need to take the initiative and take the older elemer fuds out shooting with us. Let them see first hand that the evil black rifle isn’t any different than their old bolt action deer rifle. Spend a couple bucks letting them shoot groundhogs for an afternoon and we will win them over.
Well said Scott, my rational for my proposal comes from my fears of what they will come up with next. I know the gun rights people out number the anti people, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more people in the middle that could be swayed either way and I fear that the antis will be successful in swaying them their way due to the recent events. Most non-gun people are completely clueless on the laws, I asked some of my non-gun friends (not antis, just indifferent) what they thought about gun control and the thought of an assualt weapon ban. All of them said they were fine with people having guns, but supported the AWB because they didn’t think people should have automatic weapons. This is the typical misinformation that the antis spread and will be in the minds of non-gun people as they vote. Of course I corrected them, but how many do you think are not? Hopefully all the gun control cries from the left and media will die down on their own, as they have in the past, but this time feels different. Hopefully I’m wrong.
Unless You’re proposing amending the Constitution much of what you suggest as well as all the gun control that’s come before is flat out illegal in the first place. I’m getting tired of people pretending it isn’t unconstitutional.
Exactly. The bill of rights was written to limit federal governments power and we have allowed them to step all over it. The only right that was written with the words “shall not be infringed” is the one that has been the most trampled on. Although the 4th has been bent and twisted almost as much.
Correct.
The words written in our Constitution and the Declaration tell me that I am a free man, yet the State tells me that I am a slave or a child. Either I am a free man with all the Rights granted me by my Creator, or I am a slave that has to ask the slave master, a child that has to beg his parents for permission; there is no other option.
The problem is definitely NOT guns in the hands of the wrong people. The problem is that if some little loser wants notoriety, he can shoot a place up. Afterwards, he’s all over the news, with every little detail of his sad little life a headline.
People didn’t wait more than a few hours to jump on the gun control band wagon, that is just disgusting to me. In my opinion, that is an utter lack of respect and tact. They didn’t even allow time to mourn or details about what actually happened come out. People were already crying to ban “assault weapons” while the media was busy accusing the wrong person. It’s simply a circus in which everyone saw an opportunity to jump on and further their own ends. Each of the side shows is whatever each special interest group has decided to say to manipulate this to further their goals. If any of these people actually cared about the victims they might take a minute to shut up about their agenda and keep the focus on the here and now where it is important. Disgusting. But hey, maybe I’m no better for writing this. But at least I’m not a predator seizing an opportunity to bang my war drum either. Now, if you notice, every other headline is about a shooting with an “assault rifle” or about a foiled plot to do a shooting with an “assault rifle”. It all seems to be about keeping the fear alive and hyping it up in a way to achieve what you want.
It also apparently doesn’t matter to any person in the media/DC that we in CT still have an assault weapons ban similar to the 1994 federal ban which includes, numerous firearms banned by name, “assault weapons” banned outright (with very minor exception based on registration date) and a feature based ban system that requires any firearm with 3 or more “assault weapon/style features” to be illegal. Our own governor seems to forget that these laws exist and is looking for more federal legislation that will be exactly the same as what is already in place! But I suppose it might be inconvenient to mention this fact. I suppose when one must save face they must save face… It’s all misinformation, half truths, distorted facts, and withheld information with these people. It is a wonder they can be so sure of anything when no one investigating this is sure of much yet.