One assumes that assault rifles were picked on because they are particularly lethal. Key attributes that make them so include accuracy at range, rapid-fire capability and, most importantly, fearsome ballistics. In their most common calibers – 7.62 and .223 – these weapons discharge bullets whose extreme energy and velocity readily pierce protective garments commonly worn by police, opening cavities in flesh many times the diameter of the projectile and causing devastating wounds…
…It’s not just “assault weapons” that pose an unreasonable threat to the public. Over the past decade, 18 law enforcement officers were killed by rifle bullets that penetrated their so-called bulletproof vests (only one was killed by a penetrating handgun round), according to the FBI. While most deaths came from ammunition associated with assault rifles, nearly every round down to the old-fashioned .30-30 proved lethal.
Source: Ex-ATF Agent: America is only pretending to regulate lethal firearms. – The Washington Post
Basically what the ex-agent is saying is that if we only had muzzle-loaders, cops would be safe to do their jobs. I went to Youtube where many body armor has met its demise at the hands of evil gun owners testing rounds and…. found that there were no videos of people shooting a .50 caliber round from a muzzle-loader into a vest rated IIIA which is pretty much the police standard. I was shocked.
I then ended up in Facebook and asked if anybody had seen a video like that…nope. We went to the math and checked muzzle-loader ballistics and they are nothing to sneeze at when you can send a .50 caliber round between 1,700 and 2,100 feet per second. Somebody came with the solution: Compare to shotgun slugs since a 12 gauge is the equivalent of a .50 caliber…. BINGO!
Actually the shotgun slug is a tad slower but it is close enough for comparison.
And I found this video. Go to 00:57
The important captures:
Good News: The slug did not go through the vest. Bad news, the slug took the vest with it about five to six inches in what would be the person’s chest. That is more than enough to gravely injury or kill.
I’ll wait till a helpful soul does a test with a muzzle-loader, but I am going to call it a very probable chance that a modern cop shot with the gun that the Founding Fathers used at the time they wrote the Second Amendment would be in a very dire situation if not outright killed by a muzzle-loader bullet hitting the vest.
Update: Please check the comments for some corrections and further instruction. The Muzzle Loading brigade showed up to save the day!
21 thoughts on “Ex-ATF Agent wants only muzzle loaders to keep cops safe. UPDATE”
“…by rifle bullets that penetrated their so-called bulletproof vests…” – Oh my god – he’s stupid.
They are called bulletproof because they are bulletproof – as long as you use the bullet the vest was proofed for :p
Many moons ago my friends and I did this same experiment with a ballistic vest ‘insert’ (5 layers of kevlar sewed together in a torso shape) propped up against a rotted out, waterlogged cedar stump. Same results… first layer or two were demolished, with the fifth layer showing only some ‘stressing’ of the kevlar weave. But the entire insert was flat BURIED into the stump by about 8 inches!
Funny you should post this now as only a day or two ago I decided to see if anyone on Youtube had videos testing modern arrows against ballistic vests.
Lets just say they reinforced the adage that vests were made to stop bullets, not knives.
I would like to see a vest versus a modern muzzle loader and a fmj saboted round…
My guess is that it likely won’t stop a saboted round. It has the energy of the larger projectiles with a smaller diameter so it’ll probably punch through.
Guy wants us kept to muzzle loaders because he afraid of kicking his kicked again n like the opening round of Waco. Idiot.
Sen. Chappaquidick Kennedy made the same arguments about 30-30 when he tried to ban ‘armor piercing’ ammo.
I have a Level IIIA vest left over from when I worked security. It has a warning on the inside that says (paraphrasing) “this vest will stop a shotgun slug but the blunt trauma is lethal.”
Get a pic!
One of our local Muzzleloading group has a vest that he wore as a patrolman that he’s said he would be willing to use to test a .50 RB against. I’ll contact him and schedule a demo with video.
You are a good man, Craig…and shooting stuff is always fun.
As part of the video test we’ll also fire a solid bullet .22LR at it. It is my understanding (heard a rumor) that such a small caliber will penetrate the vest as well, due primarily to the small diameter of the bullet, rather than the velocity. Which means, if correct, that there is NO way it would stop a .223 round, caliber OR mm……
Stand by for the PSH from the anti-liberty morons.
I have the feeling the video will go gun viral
Was told by an old Lawman once that every household should have a 45.70 Rifle loaded up with 400+ grain bullets, maybe slow, may not be lethal in and of itself, but it will put a threat down and keep it down.
Being the owner of two .45-70 rifles, I’m unsure how getting hit by one of those “may not be lethal.”
Plenty of friends I’ve let take a few shots who hand the gun back after only one, rubbing their shoulders.
Let’s not miss the point that I NEED weapons that can defeat body armor if the police go along with unConstitutional confiscation. When tyranny arrives in full force, I must have weapons that are effective against governmental goons. That’s the whole point of the Second Amendment.
both the .243 and .270 copper solid (California lead free hunting approved – think of the Condors! ) will ignore a IIIA vest and zip right through a 3/8 AR-500 plate. there’s youtube videos
The stuff about rifles and saboted slugs aside, I think the 12-gauge with the plain old Foster-type slug is probably quite close to a musket. I understand that the Charleville musket (French) was .69 caliber and the Brown Bess .75. The 12-gauge is nominally .73 caliber. Similar size, smoothbore, soft lead projectile: a deadly combination then and now. It helped end the age of armor.
Did the nice Fed care to give any numbers, or recite specific cases, of cops killed because they got shot through a Kevlar vest by a ‘high powered’ rifle? Or was he talking out his ass?
Maybe they need to improve on vest quality instead of worrying about what bullets will or won’t go through what they have now.The way it sounds the ones they have won’t stop much at all.
Most vest have been rated up to .44 mag (IV-A IRRC) which is what most cops will face.
Uhhh… head shots? A vest does not make you superman. LEO will know this. Nice to have if you are part of a team, and a perp hits you in the vest with a .38 or 9mm. You might go down, bad hurt, but won’t bleed out before you get to hospital.
But notice the stats the guy quoted. 18 killed in 10 years. I call that low numbers.
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