1776: “We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”
2016: “Sorry, I have to vote my ‘conscience’.”
What the f*** has happened to us? And don’t think there were deep divisions among the men in the Continental Congress, but they were not petty enough to sacrifice the future of the about-to-be-born nation. Thirteen colonies went on to face the mightiest empire of the world and today, even know they understand (or maybe they don’t) the threat that Hillary represents, we have people , allegedly our people huffing like little spoiled kids.
Understand that if you are trying to “teach” us a lesson, it will be very expensive and you will not be spared of its consequences.
We will hang separately.
Or we just don’t take Trump seriously when he talks a good talk on the 2nd. He has shown again and again that he has no respect for any of the Bill of Rights.
And on a strategic scale, he just cannot win. He is too deeply unpopular in the swing states that matter.
Trump’s popularity, especially in swing states, is on the rise, and his chances at this moment are ranked in excess of 57% and climbing, while Hillary’s are in free-fall as both her own, and Bernie’s, supporters flee her camp in favor of the other 3 options. You’re going to have more Democrats voting alongside you for Gary Johnson than you are Republicans.
Not that Gary Johnson’s views on the bill of rights are any better than Donald Trump’s.
The watered-down turd of a “libertarian” that is Gary Johnson pisses me off so much. Now libertarianism is in vogue? And Johnson is supposed to be its shining example. Give me a break. You can’t pretend to be a libertarian if you don’t even know what NAP stands for. I should remind these “Dems” how much they hated Ron Paul.
Ditto to Formynder. Cannot believe a word from Trump’s soup-coolers. To the extent that I’m still not convinced that his cartoonish campaign isn’t really a stalking horse for Hillary. With GOP voters complaining over the last couple of decades about how they’re never offered a truly Conservative candidate…to now show solidarity to a Liberal? There’s no teachable moment there….
So basically what you are saying is that since Hillary is a known quantity, you rather have her as president? Because contrary to the siren’s song played by the Libertarians, Johnson is not a realistic option.
Buy rope.
Not what I’m saying, but what I will say is that my vote will not impact the election for POTUS. My vote can however, help ensure automatic ballot access for the LP next electoral cycle.
You are talking about a political party that in all these decades have not been able to create a structure that can ensure them a dozen seats in congress or any stare legislature? And you trust a Libertarian president to run a country when they can’t stop a fat ginger from streaking their convention?
I do. Look at what the two major parties have yielded…Trump and Clinton. I’ll take the fat, naked ginger over two parties that fight over managing Leftist policies.
I’m likely more optimistic that we can eventually break the duopoly than you are.
Neither is Trump a viable option. He’ll lose, unless something changes drastically between now and November. But at least I don’t have to compromise my principles and still lose.
Like people actually stop being butthurt that their candidate did not make it though the primaries and vote for him?
You aren’t voting against Trump out of some warped sense of honor, you’re voting against Trump so that Hillary will win and you can lord your moral superiority over the rest of us who actually tried to stop her for 4 years.
…and the duck comes down from the ceiling and ClockworkGremlin wins $100…
Trump is destined to fail. That’s a fact. I’m not convinced Trump was ever in it to win; I suspect he’s as surprised as anyone he’s the nominee ( think the same was even more true of Obama eight years ago). It’s entirely the whole thing was merely a campaign to pump up Trump’s “brand.”
And Trump as stalking horse for Hillary is entirely a possibility.
Trump is not our friend. We are fooling ourselves if we ever think so. Hillary is certainly our enemy. Our choice is a turd sandwich that will lose, or a turd sandwich that will win. And there is little if anything can do about it.
Or I can vote libertarian, and sleep soundly with my conscience at night. The result will be the same; HIllary will win. In my state it won’t matter, the R will win my state. And the libertarians take another step forward to being a player.
The reality is that the Dems have such an electoral college advantage that a Republican is playing catch-up from day one. And that’s a REAL Republican, not the charlatan they’ve nominated. It still blows my mind that the Democrats have nominated the weakest candidate in decades, a historically bad candidate that even her supporters know cannot be trusted and couldn’t even pass a background check – and who do the R’s nominate? Trump? F’ing Trump? The best you could do is a reality show clown with bad hair? Really?
It’s like the Republicans want to lose.
Is it a fact or you are doing what is possible to make it a fact?
Self-fulfilling prophecies are a nasty thing. They come back to bite you in the parts you don’t wish to have removed.
Reality is what it is. Trump has to sweep the swing states to win. The likelihood of that occurring is nearly zero. Once again: It’s like the Republicans want to lose.
And I don’t live in a swing state. I live in a state where I am free to vote my conscience without the risk of swinging the result. If Jesus Christ alighted personally on Hillary’s shoulders, my state would still vote Republican.
This year, there is a certain freedom in knowing that.
Always comforting to know you have a reserved seat in the box cars going east.
…and as the Democrat National Police Force drags his family away, he’ll hold his head up proud… because he fought the good fight against that demon Trump.
If you seriously think Trump would enter the presidential race and assault Ted Cruz’s credibility as badly as he has without expecting to win, you’re as deluded as the people who think Bernie Sanders’s economic policies have any merit. Donald Trump’s ego will not permit him to enter any competition unless he intends to win it.
Frankly, it’s hilarious that you would crow your diatribes against a man whose electoral odds are increasing, who has a history of kindness and charity, and who has historically claimed he would never run for president unless he thought there was nobody better available (it’ll be a massive pay cut, if nothing else). If the Republican party wants to lose, then the Never Trump crowd is at the forefront.
You’re not voting your conscience anymore. You’re handing Hillary your vote on a silver platter. You aren’t expecting Hillary to win at this point. You’re HOPING Hillary will win, so that you can cry “Told you so” for another 4 years.
Well guess what. If you ever want to get a decent president in, Hillary needs to lose. If the Democrats land a victory after being as much as held up as a special class by the FBI, and after having their dirty laundry aired by the E-mail leak, then in 4 years, you won’t even have an option as good as Trump.
You think things are bad now? They’re just going to get worse.
I, too, am unsure of Trump. I am sure of Hilary and want NONE of it. If Trump will send us down the drain, Hilary will have us in the sewage treatment plant.
So we we just skim over and do our best to ignore that whole honor part then?
Like GMC70 no matter how I vote, my vote is far from having an impact.
The only thing honor’s ever done is get good men killed.
The lead in quote suggests otherwise.
1776: “We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”
2016: “Sorry, I have to vote my ‘conscience’.”
False dichotomy.
The Founders were “voting their consciences” when they declared, in no uncertain terms, that King George’s reign had lost the “mandate of heaven” and his ruling authority over the American colonies was at an end.
Trump is not a moral man, and he has (nearly, of not all) the same disrespect for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as Obama. He will also “go around Congress” when they “refuse to act”. Am I supposed to suddenly be happy about this just because Trump’s EOs favor my point of view?
Now, I believe that failing any major gaffes (which are by no means out of the realm of possibility), Trump will ultimately win this election; as undesirable as he is, Hillary is toxic. Not just toxic, but septically toxic. Even a fair number of Democrats don’t want her. Many will stay home, some might write in Sanders, and some of them might even vote for Trump.
In all likelihood, though, I will not. Oregon will very likely go blue. We nearly always do; the “keep it weird” wing-nuts in Portland have the demographic weight to carry the state. (OTOH, all but one county went to Sanders in the Dem primary, so there’s a remote possibility Hillary’s support will be thin here – see above stay-home/write-in/vote-Trump options.)
In any case, I am about done watching the dumpster fire that is the 2016 Presidential race. I’m now focusing on the Senate races; we need to keep the Senate in GOP hands to mitigate the disaster that either Trump or Clinton could inflict on the Supreme Court. That’s Trump’s only saving grace, in my opinion, but he won’t be able to get anyone even remotely conservative confirmed to SCOTUS (or his cabinet) if the Senate switches to Dem control.
Everybody: don’t assume your vote doesn’t matter because of your state. Every Vote Matters. A vote for a third party is a vote for Hilary.
Hold your nose, vote for the only candidate with a chance of beating Hilary.
Please.
See, I asked nicely!
Thanks.
The last time my state went to the Dems was ’64. If you rack-&-stack the states for Goldwater by percentage of the vote, we were #14. Obama has never won a single county in my state. My state would vote for the devil himself if he had an elephant button on his jacket.
Whenever I hear someone say, “A vote for [x] is a vote for Hillary”, I realize I’m either listening to a Party sycophant or someone who doesn’t grasp the electoral vote concept. No offense intended. That’s just how it comes across.
There’s a bunch of Nader voters in Florida who felt the same way back about 16 years ago.
In the same timeframe (’64-’12), Florida went R 8 times and D 5 times. That’s a rather different scenario than the one I describe. My statement above is based on MY scenario.
My hat is off to you for picking FL in ’00 as your example. That one is much more plausible in my mind than Perot in ’92. Remember, GHWB screwed over gun owners AND fiscal conservatives. I think that cost him many more votes than Perot ever did. Bush lost by 102 EV’s and I don’t think Perot swung the election THAT much.
There is something people are forgetting: Mandate.
Care to elaborate?
It is not the same winning a state by a million votes than by three hundred. It does affect the way Congress work, basically if they will bend to the President’s wishes or fight him all the way.. The President’s Bully Pulpit tends to have less influence on Congress even if it is 100% on the other side when results are close.
I understand what you are saying and agree, if congress and the president aren’t holding hands, that gives some legislative safety/stagnation.
Mandate though? What specifically do you mean by that? Do you mean that with a compliant congress the president will basically mandate law? To me that pretty much pushes the argument to the more important battle being over congress; especially since they are the ones who are supposed to make the laws. For all he has tried, Obama hasn’t done much because congress isn’t in lock step with him.
First, “Mandate” for an Executive, means a candidate wins with enough popular support that the legislators know that their constituents support his program and that opposing it could have consequences from them come their next election time. It has meant this at least since I’ve been following politics, and I remember President Nixon. I have no idea where you get “mandate law” from.
Second, if you think the Republican caucus in Congress has thrown any significant stumbling blocks in President Pen and Phone’s way… you just haven’t been paying attention. That whorish behavior, in fact, is a big part of why Trump won the primaries.
DaveP, I think we are saying basically the same thing. That is why I ask though, I have no idea what Miguel means, I take mandate to mean a command is issued like a royal decree.
IDK, they sued over Obama care, blocked gay marriage as much as they could, and no new gun laws have come about federally (impotent EOs are not new laws). They certainly didn’t stop everything, but I’m not saying that either. I’m saying that maybe keeping congress as deadlocked as possible is more important.
Every time I see the NeverTrumpers parading their smug I hear this voice in the back of my head:
Danny DeVito, the “Buggy Whip” speech…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62kxPyNZF3Q
He’s talking about the Great Conservative Hope, Ted Cruz, there. Ted- and his followers- were intent on, and happy about, scarfing up a bigger and bigger slice of a smaller and smaller pie. I watched Cruz in the debates and I listened to his supporters, and there was NO realization that Cruz couldn’t win the primaries by appealing only to TwooCons, there was NO realization that Cruz- that no candidate- could win the White House for the republicans by only appealing to TwooCons. And because that appeal was all they needed, everything else- Amnesty, tariffs, the ability to speak to a crowd without sounding like a snake oil salesman with piles- went right by the wayside.
Who cares if we lost the Primaries… that just shows that the American voter is stupid and wrong. Who needs voters when you’re right, eh guys?
Guys, I have news for you: buggy whips aren’t selling, the factory is closing, and there will be no safe harbor. I still see no hint that the smuggers have the understanding that there will be consequences to this election: as long as they can celebrate a Trump defeat, they don’t care that it means a Hillary victory. Literally, they don’t care about the consequences to themselves, their communities, or their country… as long as they can say they voted for Mickey Mouse, or for a Libertarian, or whatever. I still see no clue that the smuggers understand that there will be an election in ’18 and another one in ’20, and the same majority of the voters who they’ve spent the past 18 months badmouthing are gonna be the same ones whose votes they’ll need for their pet candidates.
But that’s okay, because you’ll have shown how superior you are by parading your #NeverTrump hashtag. The social signaling is the only important thing.
Part of the problem is they think there WILL be another election in ’18, and in ’20, and in ’22, and in ’24. They think the sun will continue to rise and set, and that the American empire will never fall. As bad as things get, if they hold out just a little longer, the perfect candidate will come along and everything will be all better.
Well guess what, the only thing that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. And the #NeverTrump crowd is busy preaching the merits of doing nothing.
It’s time to grow up, stop waiting for something to happen, and make something happen.
Gremlin: Precisely!
Others: There is a time to argue about Trump. It is in the bar, after you vote for him this November. Maybe we will regret it. But if Hilary wins, we will definitely regret it, for at least 8 years, and maybe many, many more. Don’t be a dick. Hold your nose, vote for Trump, or just go ahead and get a Hilary bumper sticker and stop posting on Miguel’s blog!
Don’t forget! Supreme Court! Do you want Hilary “the SCOTUS is wrong” Clintin to pick the next Supreme?
Here’s the final thing, #NeverTrumpers: all the social signalling, all the self-satisfied mouthings of contempt for Trump and his supporters. .. as long as you keep that up, you’re NOT thinking about how and why your cause and your champion lost. So what would you rather do : figure out how to do better, what pitfalls to dodge, and maybe pull off a win?
Or just exercise your smug?