Via Student of the Gun.
The NYPD has instructed cops to stop carrying an off-duty gun that has a trigger so light it’s been blamed for a series of accidental discharges, the Daily News has learned.
NYPD spokesman Paul Browne says the Kahr K-9 semi-automatic pistol has led to more than a dozen such shootings — none resulting in a fatality. The shootings have occurred over the last few years, a source said.
via NYPD brass to cops: Stop using Kahr K-9 semi-automatic pistol as an off-duty gun – NY Daily News.
So how light is the trigger pull in the K-9? Less than the 5.5 Lbs from a standard Glock 17? Maybe a 4.5 to 5 Lbs tuned 1911? Maybe Rob Leatham’s 1.5 Lbs for his competition guns?
Nope. NYPD thinks a 7.5 pounds trigger pull is too light. I am not kidding you.
Then again, the NYPD issue Glock’s trigger is a hefty 12 Lbs. That is more than double of the standard Glock and imposed by the ambulance chasers and bean counters of NYC to allegedly avoid negligent discharges.
As somebody once put it less than poetically:” Boomstick does not go bang unless you are finger f***ing the trigger.” My take is what we are seeing here is negligent training in the NYPD who rather than re-train its officers in the four basic rules of Gun Safety, (which would put a huge dent in the budget) went the way of “let’s make this thing really hard to pull and maybe we won’t be sued for much.” What they ended up with is a bunch of people who rely on the heavy trigger pull and keeping the finger on the trigger instead of proper finger discipline (outside the trigger guard.) And when dealing with a weapon with half the trigger pull, they suddenly end up with a round going where it was not supposed to go. God forbid if they ever touch a competition gun as they may spread lead faster than a Dillon mini-gun.
When we all began out journey in the world of shooting, we went through the phase of “Nifty gear makes better shooter” but we outgrew fast when we realized that it is only through good and constant practice that we become good and safe shooters. And yes, there is a place for accessories and stuff, but never as substitute for safety that can only be achieved by brain power.
that’s the one thing I don’t like about my Kahr. the LONG and heavy pull.
It is sometimes possible to educate the ignorant, but you can’t fix stupid.
I once shot a NYPD surplus Glock. I know why the NYPD can’t hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, the trigger is awful.
A trigger pull of 12-14 lbs on a Glock is very different than 12-14 lbs on a DA revolver. A DA revolver is long and smooth and even all the way through. An NYPD Glock, there is little take up and then 14 lbs all of a sudden at the end.
Combined with the fact that regular NYPD officers shoot less than 100 rounds per year (unless they buy their own ammo and practice off duty), it’s almost like the NYPD doesn’t want its officers to be able to shoot worth a damn.
J is absolutely correct… And I’m not betting they CAN hit the barn standing inside… half the rounds would go in the dirt…
“. . . and if it wasn’t for gravity, you wouldn’t even be able to hit the ground!”
(not sure what that is from, but it is a very insightful insult for many)
About 20 years ago, a friend of mine (a fellow agent) attended a training session run by retired NYPD coppers. He was told at the time, “You know what NYPD does when a cop is killed? They hire a new one. On the other hand, they have determined that every bullet fired by a cop on the street costs the City $8800.” (It’s probably 20 grand today.)
But when they DO fire, they hit everyone BUT their target.
part and parcel of lack of training and bad triggers… but what can you expect from a governance that hates guns?
When we all began out journey in the world of shooting, we went through the phase of “Nifty gear makes better shooter” but we outgrew fast when we realized that it is only through good and constant practice that we become good and safe shooters.
Funny, I didn’t ever feel that way.
I determined long ago – with help from Granddad – that most guns inherently shoot better (i.e. more consistently) than I do. Therefore, I decided, based on that assumption, that investing in the new whiz-bang “pro”-grade gadgets/upgrades/modifications/accessories is a total waste of money until I get better.
IOW, if I can’t do it with a decent stock pistol, it’s unlikely I’d suddenly be able to do it with a shiny new expensive “custom” pistol.
So I’ll invest in practice and training, and only when I’m absolutely sure any remaining inconsistency resides in the gun will I drop that cash for that purpose – and probably not even then; a stock Glock can hit a man-sized target at 100+ yards, which is plenty good enough for my needs. 🙂
You had the wisdom of your grandfather yuo lucky SOB. Some of us had only the gun rags to guide us…
They don’t realize how bad thus makes them look, do they?
And I don’t realize how bad “thus” makes me look.
[…] NYPD brass tells cops to stop carrying Kahrs off duty because their officers suck at gun safety and handling err because it has a light trigger pull. […]
I didn’t illustrate my point very well. What I meant was, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. NYC’s lawyers don’t want the cops shooting anyone because it will cost them money, whether it’s a good or a bad shooting. (Cities are routinely sued by criminals the cops have shot in the commission of crimes. The city will typically give them a 5-figure payout, just to make them go away, because it’s cheaper than going to court. In some circles, this is known as “winning the ghetto lottery.”) So, in order to discourage the police from shooting anybody, they don’t train them worth a damn. So, when a NYPD cop actually has to shoot someone, he/she isn’t likely to do a very good job of it. Then there’s an 8-figure payout, and the vicious circle spins around again.
FYI, never shot any of the Steel Kahrs, but my PM45 has about a 4.5lb trigger.
That being said the trigger pull is closer to that of a Colt Python than most striker-fired guns. LONG pull that is as heavy at the start as it is at break, with the reset at full forward travel.
Sorry if you’re fucking that up you could fuck up a steel ball!
One of teh things I like about the Kahrs are the trigger is somewhat less prone to unintended loud noises, due to it’s length and trigger pull weight. . .