First, let’s make something clear, we have two distinct groups: Open Carry Citizens (the ones that understand both Rights and Responsibilities) and Open Carry Idiots (the ones that go full tactical rifle, plate carrier and 20 magazines to show off at the local Dairy Queen) . This is addressed to the second lot.
You have worn out your privilege of being the Stupid Kin of the Gun Culture.
What do I mean the Stupid Kin? Do you know that uncle or cousin that always comes up in the family gossip? The one with a new tale of some dumb shit he did like getting caught trying to piss inside the gas tank of the Methodist Minister’s car? Or using a lighter to check a septic tank? Or picking a fight with the local college’s rugby team? The kin you have a special plan prepared for him if when he acts up during Thanksgiving which includes both a First Responder kit and bail money? That is the Stupid Kin.
Eventually, even though he is family, people will grow tired of his behavior and will cut him off from family gatherings because he will hurt somebody and worse. And that is where OCIs are standing right now with the rest of the Gun Community.
We are tired of your childish crap.
Maybe the message got lost from the time of the wars for Concealed Carry to the modern times. Whenever a State got Shall Issue as the law of the land and people started to carry, the first thing everybody told you was to be the best and most polite citizen you could be. You were (and still are) a walking/talking ambassador for Concealed Carry in particular and Gun Rights in general. Old heads will remember the Media attending Gun shows looking to interview a gun owner about Concealed carry and growing desperate when they could not find the human version of the caricature they pushed as Gun Owner but a well spoken, fact filled and courteous citizen explaining the advantages of CC and how the hysteria was unfounded. The Media hated it and eventually they stopped their silly propaganda. Concealed Carry was “normalized” because we all behave like honorable and respectful citizens of our country. We did not dress up or acted up like the enemy had portrayed us doing, we did the opposite and made them liars.
OCI is the opposite. They want controversy. They want their mention in the Six O’clock news under a negative banner as if they wanted to show off in Social Media as victims of Fake News. An OCI seems to think: “A mass shooter with a rifle kills a bunch of people in a Walmart? Hell, fuck being polite, I am gonna dress just like the caricature of a Gun Owner, go out in the street parading, sporting an attitude and see what happens. Maybe I can be famous too” which if you think about it, it is supposedly the same mentality that Mass Killers have: The seeking of fame and recognition.
So, again, we are sick of your stupid stunts. So far the pushback was been from privately-owned (as in property rights) business politely asking not to open carry. But Stupid Cousin being stupid and doing something outstandingly moronic at one of these places, we are expecting the asking to be upgraded to prohibiting Open Carry and that is if we are lucky and then don’t decided to go all the way to include Concealed Carry in the ban.
And if the responses I’ve been having about my position on this matter are a reflection of the Gun Community, be advised that 90% of our people are also fed up with the OCI antics. And I believe so much so they will be willing to trade you for a White Box of Wally World 9mm and a bag of Skittles. You have burned any good will we had left for you and you clearly never showed any care for us.
How’s that for normalizing Open Carry?
PS: I just heard that Publix has joined the “Please, No Open Carry” movement.
Pure genius! Excellent work!
Thank you.
Can I be a co-signer?
There’s folks who honor common decency and try to get along with fellow human beings, and then there are those that show up carrying “GOD HATES FAGS” signs at any and all funerals for fallen service members. The latter seems to be from the same vein as our open carry assholes. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. You get us all painted with the same shit-stained brush. And the favorite sport of marxist totalitarians is to smear Christians, gun owners, and anything that holds up the pillars of The Constitution and what’s left of our decent and polite society. Just stop being jackhole idiots. Public opinion counts.
“You get us all painted with the same shit-stained brush.”
I am so stealing this….
I have several points, but will restrict myself to a few. First, let’s stop calling carrying a firearm in a manner in which the public is unaware of it “concealed” carry. I prefer the FAR less loaded term “discrete” carry. If you have no nefarious intent, you are carrying discretely for the comfort & protection of all.
Second, SOME states authorize open carry &/or discrete carry at the option of the citizen. It makes no sense to paint all open carriers with the same broad brush as the OCIs, as you call them. Shortly after relocating to Arizona from my native California, I was in the checkout line at Cabelas. Being only dimly aware of Arizona’s “constitutional carry” laws, I was not fully prepared to see what was clearly a civilian with a sidearm on his belt. It took a couple moments to recall that this was perfectly legal in my new home. Someone not familiar with the state law might have considered this young man to be one of your “OCI’s.”
Finally, if we are all working for the same goal of recognition of the 2nd amendment as the only “permit” required for carrying a firearm, whether openly, concealed or discretely, we need to stop biting ourselves in the butt & actually WORK TOGETHER to reach our goal. That will occasionally require working with that “crazy uncle/cousin” and educating him/her as to the negative impact of his/her actions & working diligently to get them onboard with the program.
“That will occasionally require working with that “crazy uncle/cousin” and educating him/her as to the negative impact of his/her actions & working diligently to get them onboard with the program.”
Wait, do you think that was not done already? Do you actually think OC was passed because both groups were working together? Nope, it passes due to the efforts of the people with brains who were smart enough to remove OCIs from the conversation with politicians. Texas was one flea’s fart away from losing the chance thanks to the dumb OCIers that went as far as to threaten legislators.
It is time for the OCIs to shut the hell up and let the adults work.
I think that article WAS a good EDU.
This.
I tried to defend that second group as long as I could, mostly while they were protesting Texas’s idiotic no-open-carry-of-handguns law (and many other states before that, though up til Texas, they were generally neat, tidy and organized-as Group One).
But they were on the ragged edge then, and have jumped (NOT been pushed, they did this themselves) straight into the ‘Not Being Fucking Helpful’ circus.
VERY nice piece of work. I don’t know how many times I commented in whatever forum about that idiot in Wal-mart last week. Gets fined and banned from Wal-Mart. The story caption is Police ban man from Wal-Mart. It is the store who does that not the police.
Miguel, your language is as offensive as the OCI’s are. To me, you’re just like them.
And you are racist…
(I almost forgot to throw that one out there)
In my opinion, Miguel, that was a pretty poor choice of response. I thought you were trying to be the adult in the conversation. Apparently I was incorrect.
“I thought you were trying to be the adult in the conversation. Apparently I was incorrect.”
And not only about my level of maturity but pretty much everything else in general.
You worry about form, I worry about function.
.
Based on what, exactly? Educate me on what points of similarity you see.
It is a miracle that one of the OCI idiots has not been shot dead when he walks into a store
This stuff makes me so mad. This shit killed five years of my work normalizing open carry. At least I have the last chapter for my book on open carry now…
It has killed all the bills in Florida even before Parkland.
And I doubt we will have a chance this year
I’m going to disagree on a few bits here Miguel. These stores are not doing this because of the so-called OCIs. They were looking for an excuse to catch a break from the Blue Checkmark crowd who vastly outsize their actual presence on social media. WM for example, has been working with MDA for *YEARS* at this point.
Are the OCIs wise? Certainly not. It is on each person to be the best representation of themselves. However, just like the idiots waving signs at military funerals, they still have the right to be a jerk. They, just like the fence-sitters, need to be educated, not shamed.
Btw, property rights do not extend to places of public accomodation. If so, a store like Kroger could legally prevent blacks from shopping or working there. Obviously they can not. Nor can a store ignore ADA requirements. They can ask people to follow their guidelines or leave, and trespass if needed, but they can not ignore state and federal law on a whim.
“However, just like the idiots waving signs at military funerals, they still have the right to be a jerk. ”
They certainly do… as is my right to call them idiots and shun their asses because they are screwing it up for everybody. They are making us look like the stupid caricatures of Gun Owners that the Left loves to paint. It was the dumbasses in Texas that almost made the OC bill go down who were used as excuse here in Florida to kill our own OC bill. So yes they have a right, but having a right does not mean not to extend the courtesy of behaving like decent people and not sabotage the efforts of others. They are self-entitled jerk offs.
OCI has no idea how little good will the Gun Community has towards them. And they are dumb enough that still do not see it. You are one of the very defending them still, probably only the third that has done so here or in Facebook & Twitter. And at least one State Open Carry organization does not want to know about idiots like that.
And it is going to get worse if they do not understand the damage they are doing.
Which is my point. We need better organization and education on our side to limit the spread and impact of the OCI. Too many gun owners just lump them in with all OC and say “Well only a fool would OC anyway”. The infighting serves us no purpose except to divide us. It is up to each of us to work together within our advocating to create the most effective image possible, and not just dismiss the idiots out of hand and let them stand in as the caricatures the left thinks we all are.
“We need better organization and education on our side to limit the spread and impact of the OCI.”
Agree and the first thing is to make them understand they are crapping all over the carpet. Unfortunately, Open Carry Organizations are afraid to lose membership and importance if they come down hard on the Idjits.
And they need to change that attitude the soonest lest external forces change the whole game for them
Agreed.
I think you need to go back and look at public accommodation laws. They have to allow access for the handicapped and cannot discriminate based on race, color, religion, or national origin. A business has every right to not allow people to open carry within their establishment as well as prohibit concealed carry. No different than “no shoes, no shirt, no service.” Comparing preventing blacks from your business to preventing open carry is ridiculous, comparing apples to oranges.
This is incorrect in many states that afford no power to signage or to businesses that ask people not to carry. I know for a fact that both NV and AL give businesses no power to ask customers to leave based on arms they carry, or how they carry them. This is generally how it works in states where signs have no force of law. Even TX requires very specific signage in order for it to have effect.
Once again you are incorrect. Neither is mentioned in law but the businesses still have the right to post signage and ask customers not to carry. They are not prohibited from doing such. Just because a law hasn’t been written to state that you can do something doesn’t mean you can’t do it. You can be asked to leave if they don’t want out there and, if you don’t, the police can remove you. Just because the law gives no power to something doesn’t mean it removes someone else’s rights.
In both NV and AL , signs have no force of law, nor can legal possession of a firearm be the reason one is asked to leave a place of public accomodation. You can be trespassed for refusing to leave, but the reason for asking someone to leave can not be that they are legally armed.
Nevada has this little thing in the law:(NRS 207.200 ) “Going onto someone else’s property with the intent to commit a crime or annoy the owner,”
If the owner is annoyed by OC, you can legally be asked to leave and be trespassed.
Miguel, extending that logic means a business owner can ask armed blacks to leave because he finds a particular race being armed as annoying. That statue clearly pertains to the context of inciting or harassing someone, not being something which someone else just disagrees with.
Understand something: It is not what you wish the law to be but what case law says it is. You can lay the accusation that race was a factor, but you better prove it.
In NV, exercise of Constitutional rights has been repeatedly used to overturn trespassing convictions, especially on the Strip. That is the reason all the pan-handlers can not be booted from the sidewalks (still private property) in front of the casinos. Same for the card-flippers that hand out leaflets and strip-club advertisements. It is also the reason the casinos have not been able to do anything about concealed carry on their property, but they will ask you to leave if you carry openly.
I think Alabama is like Florida: It is not required to give you a “why” when asked to leave. If the owner says you are no welcome, you must leave or face criminal charges.
Good news: Alabama does not give you a felony charge for trespassing with a Firearm. Florida has no problem doing so.
A business owner can ask you to leave and not say why, but they can not say it is because you are merely armed. That is not grounds to have someone trespassed in the state.
A felony in FL? That is ridiculous.
Title XLVI
CRIMES
Chapter 810
BURGLARY AND TRESPASS
View Entire Chapter
810.08
(c) If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or arms himself or herself with such while in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
————————-
Once again, in Florida if you are asked to leave, you leave and apologize in the way out. And make sure the business does not own the parking lot before you start screaming obscenities at them.
That is also incorrect. Assuming you are correct about the signs, there is no law in any state that doesn’t allow a business to ask someone to leave for any reason. And they can call the law to enforce this. (Im assuming people are smart enough to know “any reason” doesnt include violating state or federal protection for certain classes, none of which include someone open carrying)
In AL: “It shall be a rebuttable presumption that the mere carrying of a visible pistol, holstered or secured, in public place, in and of itself, is not disorderly conduct.”
This is the language used to dismiss the trespassing someone in a place of public accomodation. You can still be asked to leave and give no reason, but the lawful carrying of a firearm in and of itself can not be a stated reason, should they provide one.
The language of AC 13A was changed to this in 2013 because of businesses abusing 13A-11-52
I’m not getting your point. What in the world do property rights extending to places of public accommodation (what does that even mean?) and having race based hiring and customer acceptation policies? Who is claiming a store can ignore ADA requirements? What business is ignoring state and federal laws. and who is claiming they can?
A place of public accomodation is a place that is accessible to the public for the purposes of common use/business. I.E. a store like Walmart.
Their property rights are constrained by law since they are open to the public. Claiming that a public place has unlimited property rights, and can thus deny you your rights on their premises is incorrect. You can be asked to leave, and trespassed if you do not comply, but you can not be preemptively blocked from utilizing a public place, especially when you are not doing anything unlawful.
In short, in states with no force of law for gun signs, they hold as much weight as a sign saying “Whites only”.
Thank you for clarifying the difference. It was not clear from your postings that there was a difference for you between the two groups.
I totally agree with your statement.
Sure, keep giving up Rights to please the libtards. Maybe YOU are the problem.
And what have you done to advance the cause? Be specific. Enlighten us.