My In Laws are strongly hinting about taking me hunting. The only thing I have that looks like a hunting Rifle is the 1964 Winchester Model 70 National Match Rifle I bought some years ago. It comes with match sights and with my eyesight, I simply can’t shoot that thing comfortably. Rather than invest in modifications that would change the rifle or invest on expensive stuff to make it comfortable to shoot, I decided to sell it and get me some modern bolt action which hopefully will also be lighter that this bastard.
Now, this is what I have “learned” reading articles and blogs out there: I should go for something in the 30 caliber region because you can take most US game with it. Something bigger is overkill and something smaller may not take game humanely. Then we have the issue of ammo availability for hunting rifles which seems to be somewhat disappeared or very frigging expensive. And lastly but most importantly, get a reliable rifle from a good company.
Till yesterday, I was still debating between .30-06 and .308 mostly because the latter ammo seems to be crawling back into shelves. But then I bumped into this video:
First the question I had of ammo availability: No issue there. Y’all remember my first rifle was a WASR-10 and I bought it when Cheaper Than Dirt was not yet ScumbagDotCom and their price for 7.62 Russian was in the $100/1K range. Basically I have plenty of ammo to hunt (game) for decades. Then the caliber itself being in the metric side of the 30 caliber should be good enough to take your average deer, but I would like shooter among the readers to confirm/deny/advice on it.
And then it is Ruger and I have not heard bad things about their American Rifle series, but then again I do not keep my ear grounded on this particular type of weapons.
And the last thing: There are a couple of these rifles in stores not-so-nearby and at a decent price ($500+/-) so it would be just to show up with the cash and I go home with it rather than hunt and wait for one to show up somewhere or pay exaggerated prices in Gunbroker.
The Winchester will be put up for sale later today or tomorrow. So while I wait for the transaction to occur, I figured I ask you for your opinions and advice on the Rusky Ruger before committing the coin to it.
The little Americans are great. I have one in .300blk we use for quiet deer work. Had one in 308, ammo is abundant for them too. The 7.63×39 will be more than enough for those deer in your area
Hunting ammo is always expensive. Load your own if you are worried about cost. Hunting bullets are not that expensive compared to plinking rounds.
My choice would be 30-30 lever action. The model 94 is light, has good sights and will do fine out to over 100 yards.
7.62 by 51 in something like a Remington 700. And 30-06 in a Browning BAR which is actual a semiautomatic offered by Browning.
Don’t forget to budget for glass for old eyes
Hey Miggy,
Suggestion if you don’t mind, keep the model 70, and pass it down to one of your kids, that is heirloom stuff there. Just a thought..and buy the rifle you want anyway. Your wife would agree with that.
Unfortunately we have no kids and nobody in the family is into that kind of shooting.
I don’t like Safe Queens and and I don’t like to own something I can’t shoot. If somebody is looking for one to shoot and enjoy it, I’d be remiss not parting with it. And I need the cash anyways 🙂
At least that is my thought on that.
Search out somebody that will use that rifle . A local CMP accoiated club may be able to help you get a better price . I paid 400 for a Remington 513t stamped US property .
I would suggest the 7.62×39 surplus ammo is NOT hunting ammo. And most likely will not take game as humanely as possible. Yes it’ll kill them, but FMJ style ammo is generally avoided in hunting situations. Otherwise an ok caliber, but again make sure you actually find hunting ammo (which may be harder than you think in that caliber). Also if you’re looking for 2 MOA accuracy or better, the surplus probably won’t get you there no matter how good the rifle.
As for the other calibers, once you sight in the scope, you generally don’t burn through much ammo. One box might last several hunting seasons. So don’t worry too much about ammo as long as you stick with the popular stuff (30-06 and 308 are both fine choices, if a little bit of overkill on average whitetail deer).
According to the rules of war, you are not allowed to use certain rounds against human targets as they are particularly deadly or some such garbage.
Thus all military ammo for small arms is suppose to be full metal jacket. They idea is that it isn’t as likely to kill a person as to disable them/injure them. From a military point of view, this is good. It takes more personal to care for a wounded soldier than it does to bury one. Something like 5 to 1.
On the other hand, we do want to kill game animals as humanely as possible. This means we want to transfer as much energy from the bullet to the animal. It means we want to put the single round into the vitals so the animal just dies.
The impressive shots where somebody shoots an Elk from across the valley and the animal takes one or two steps and drops, dead before they can figure out what happened. Those are humane kills.
Using FMJ on a game animal is not humane. The round is likely to over penetrate and then you have an injured animal in pain that has to be tracked and finished off.
Hunting bullets all have expanding bullet designs of some sort. That could be as simple as just using a solid lead bullet or as complex as the Magik Hornady Supper Expanding ‘Cause Plastic Tips.
Please, please don’t attempt to use military surplus ammo for taking game. It just doesn’t work well. And in some states (all that I know of) it is not legal to hunt game with FMJ.
Remington and Hornady and Federal and even some of the import ammo makers produce hunting rounds for the 39. I run with 129gr SSTs from Hornady. The Brown Bear 130gr soft point has zero problems on a deer
I wouldn’t. You will be limiting yourself to a very specific ammo brand for effectiveness.
I’d choose a caliber that a little more versatility and availability.
243 win and 7mm-08 are extremely effective and I’ve seen 243 win on the shelves.
I’d leave the Ruskie stuff for plinking.
I have shot deer with my SKS using bulk milsurp HP ammo. Don’t do it. It doesn’t expand.
If you’re going to use 7.62×39 buy some soft point ammo.
I prefer the .30-30 over the 7.62×39, in fact, it’s my favorite hunting caliber where the range is under 200 yards. With the new modern ammo loadings it’s easily a 200 yard + cartridge.
I can’t speak to availability or cost, as I handload the cartridge and I have makings for several hundred rounds. I load the 170 grain Remington Cor-Lokt bullet. It is, hands down, the most reliable and effective hunting bullet made.
I’ve never needed more than 1 shot and everything I ever shot with one went down quickly. Those that did run didn’t go far and left a good blood trail.
The 7.62×39 Russians hallow points either expand to much and don’t penetrate enough or they don’t expand at all based on my butchering results. Soft points work wonderfully though. If you don’t have some laid away it might not be worth it to find some now. 6.5 Creedmore and anything in the 7mil range would do great on anything found in the lower 48 as well in alternative to the standard .30 calibers. I love 30-06 and .308 but the are not the only acceptable calibers.
I absolutely love my Remington 788 in 7mm08, but I haven’t seen ammunition for sale since the Insanities commenced.
I don’t know about Tennessee, but it’s difficult to find a shooting range in my locale that will let you shoot steel cased ammunition. I don’t use steel cased, but I’ve read that it dirties up the action rather quickly in pistols, I would assume worse in higher pressure rifles. And as Don posted, I wouldn’t hunt with full metal jacket. Unless you’re thinking about the hunting that will kick off in the coming CWll, then no problem.
Why don’t they allow steel cased ammo? Is this one of those areas where the range steals your empties?
At a local-ish range, it’s not that so much as the potential for a soft iron core causing a spark and starting a fire.
Granted not all steel cased ammo has a soft iron core projectile, and vice-versa, but I guess there’s enough of a correlation to make a useful rule of thumb.
I did not realize that. Thanks Boris.
Yes, which doesn’t bother me, since I gave up reloading decades ago and I won’t live long enough to shoot my stash. ;-))
For a successful hunting experience for deer or anything smaller you need to start with the right caliber….which I suggest is the afore mentioned 308 or a 270…the 270 is better than a 308 because of the superior ballistics. Both calibers have hunting grade ammo which is priced about the same….$2.00 per round or slightly more. Ruger American Standard in 270 (model 6902) is a great rifle with a proven round.
Now the “key” to a great experience is being able to ‘see’ what you’re aiming at. And this price of this rifle is about $500, which means you need to spend at least that amount on a scope…or twice as much if you want a much higher reliability factor when dialing turrets–$1000 is the bottom end of mid-grade scopes. Next you’ll need to decide which reticle is best for your application. And most likely you’ll also need to customize the rifle with a cheek pad or rest once you mount a scope.
The 270 is far better in wind than a 308. It shoots flatter and has hunting ammo with a superior ballistic coefficient.
By the time you are done with this build, you should expect to pay between $1300-2000…depending on the quality of the scope you choose.
Remember, the scope is the key to your level of success and enjoyment.
My dad is 83, and his current favorite rifle is the 7.62×39 Ruger ranch. He has about 5 loads for different situations……………..he is however looking for a muzzle break that will stop the blast…………….he laughs, but you can’t be close to that thing when it’s fired unless you are directly behind it.
I have owned at least 7 (or more) Rugers in my life, and NONE of them were accurate at all… I will not own one again… what use is a gun that doesn’t shoot straight?
May I suggest determining the following in order?
Reason (e.g. what you’re hunting)
Range
Round, and then
Rifle.
Have you considered a 6.5 Grendel or Creedmoor?
I agree that the 6.5 Creedmoor is also are great hunting round. And this round is very available. Like the 270, the round is between 120-140 gr. Both calibers are not hard on the shoulder and a real pleasure to shoot.
Now as to a comment that Ruger doesn’t make accurate rifle barrels…well, I have not found this to be the case with my forty years of experience with them. I will say that you do get what you pay for with any gun manufacturer. A sub MOA barrel cost twice the money of a standard barrel.
For instance: A Springfield M1A rifle with a Douglas barrel coast about $600 more than their standard, very good quality, barrels. A mid-grade mid-priced Ruger hunting rifle will provide 1 MOA accuracy. Call them, and they’ll guide you to that correct rifle model per your requirements.
Email sent about the Model 70. As if I need another one.
As far as a deer rifle, I’d be looking for one of the classic calibers like 243/270/308/30-06/30-30 but wouldn’t overlook the 6.5 Grendel, just sayin’.
TL:DR version:
Get a Browning A-Bolt, Savage 110 (Remington 783 is essentially the same) or Ruger American Rifle if money is a consideration but you want quality. I’m partial to the Savage.
Get a .308 Win. – a moderate round suitable for nearly everything that’s huntable in the US except maybe for animals with a living weight measured in short tons.
As it is not that fast as a .30-06, .270 or similar it’S better suited for smaller, thin skinned game like dear. I guess you want to keep the meat.
The scope should be suited to your hunting style, the type of hunt you will be participating in.
If you want you can start a thread in the forum (I know that you said you don’T do much forum ^^ ), it would be simpler to give a good consulting there.
Oh and if I read correctly FMJ rouds are prohibited in Tennessee:
https://www.tn.gov/twra/hunting/equipment-methods.html
I am going to start rethinking calibers 😀
Thanks!
Do Not get The Rotary Mag version.
That mag is the very weak link.
Box mag only.
.300 caliber cartridges (and up)are not really necessary for 99% of game hunting in the lower 48 states.
You ought to tailor your rifle to your hunting conditions. If you hunt in thick country where shots are less than 100 yds then the venerable .30-30 in a lever action will do nicely. Ammo is easy recoiling and widely available.
Any kind of open country with targets out to 300 + yds you should think about a bolt action with good glass.
You need to decide if you want a short action or long(magnum actions available too-but not recommended).
Short actions cycle slightly faster(not likely to be noticeable to most hunters) and will be 1/4 lb lighter.
If you are stand hunting then a sportier weight barrel and stock make sense. If you are actively stalking remote areas without transport then a lightweight rifle is better.
As for caliber/cartridge: you want a a bullet that delivers 1,000 foot lbs of energy to the target on impact at whatever range your target is(deer sized game).
Nearly all center fire rifle cartridges will do this at 100 yds.
Recoil is an issue for newer shooters(more so in hunting weight rifles than bench/target shooting).
The .243 Winchester is about minimum for deer(some states allow .22 center fires) and allows for low recoil and flat shooting with good results on deer. Shot placement is a lot more critical and you may pass on shots you would feel comfortable taking with a more powerful cartridge.
Really good cartridges exist in the .26 to .28 caliber range. These offer less recoil, wide selection of deer capable bullets, and flat trajectories that will give you good results in the field. The current darling in this class is the 6.5 Creedmoor.
There really isn’t a best caliber. Just find a rifle that you can shooter accurately.
A .30 calibre might not be necessary but most offer you an advantage without restrictive recoil.
Shot placment is fine – but 180gr bonded hollow point allow for a wider margin of error 😀
The Scandinavians hunt moose with the 6,5×55, W.D.M. Bell hunted over 800 elephants with a 7mm Mauser (also a fantastic hunting round, but rarer in the US), “humane” farms kill cows with the .22lr.
But if a round offers you an advantage… well, hunting is said to be sport and this is like legal doping.
I have hunted deer in Wisconsin for over 40 years. I have used everything from 8mm Mag to a .223. All will kill deer size game, 8mm is over kill in my opinion and often damages too much meat. My favorite for close shooting in wooded areas is a 30-30, ( I use a 10″ contender) My favorite for all around is my .270 bolt action. (accurate flat shooting, lots of bullet weight choices) It is adequate for up to Elk size game. If you would rather be in the 30 cal the 30-06 is also a great choice. The .270 and 30-06 ammo are generally available. The .270 I have is a savage Axis that I won at a Whitetails unlimited fundraiser. It is a stainless model, Never had any issues with the gun, I did replace the cheap scope that came with the gun.
Lot of good advice above. If I were to take up hunting again and didn’t have my 30-06’s first I would consider what I’m going to hunt-deer, elk? Then the range- short range or long range. Then I would decide on rifle/ caliber. 30-30 is a nice short- medium range deer cartridge but 30-30 is darn hard to find these days. I would be biased toward a 308 or 270, you can reach out further with more authority. Note- 99% of my deer hunting has been with a Mossberg 12 guage with a rifled barrel due to legal restrictions where I hunted (southern michigan).The range is too limited- under 100 yards. Up north with my 30-06, deer at 170 yards, no problem.
I’m guessing you probably wont make it to borepatches blog shoot if he has it again this winter?
7.62×51 (.308) is nice. I am not a hunter, though I have hunted. I took one deer on our farm from about 400 yards with .308 out of a Remington 700 with a wonderful Nikon scope on it. One shot, it made it about 20 yards, just inside the woods. It was a long trek to find the blood trail but once I had the trail it only took a little time (2 minutes?) to find the deer.
As stated above, there are three main issues: 1) Energy at impact, 2) Transfer of energy to target, 3) What you like.
I have rifles that I would have no problem taking deer hunting. 30-30, 30-06, 7.62×51. There are others in the safe that I would take IFF I had expanding bullet ammo for them.
If you can put a round through the heart or lungs of an animal, you will kill it. A 5.56 will kill a deer. It will kill a hog. Is it the best for hunting? Depends on what you are hunting and what works for you.
Given that you are starting from a Model ’70 almost any decent bolt action will get you what you need out to 100 yards and most twice that distance.
For many many years the 30-30 was the most common deer round in the US. But people yap about how bad it is as a deer round. “At 100 yards you have to shoot 2 foot over your target!” At 150gr bullet leaves my rifle at 1900fps (measured) which gives a drop of 1.5in at 100 yards. At 200 yards it is closer 12 inches. That’s just math.
.308 has a drop of about 1.5in at 100 yards and 5.5in at 200 yards.
30-06 has a drop of about 1.5in at 100 yards and 5.25 in at 200 yards.
The charts all start with the assumption of being at -1.5in at 0 yards with a zero at 100 yards. That’s why all three have the same “drop” at 100 yards.
All three of those rounds will drop an deer you hit. I’m not in a position to say, but I’d believe that any of those three could drop elk or moose.
All of those rounds will have enough energy at impact (under 300 yards) to kill a deer.
Expanding bullets. You have to transfer that energy to your target. If you use FMJ you won’t get good energy transfer. Use proper hunting rounds.
Having said all of this, pick a round and rifle that you like. I love me 30-30 Winchesters. They are light and easy to carry, they hit hard enough, they have the stopping power I’m looking for.
I love my Remington 700. It is heavy as heck, but it has the ability to reach out and touch a target at distance. Highly accurate and a joy to shoot. I don’t want to be lugging it through the woods.
I don’t like my Browning. Mostly because the people that put the scope on it seemed to have messed things up. I really should just pull the scope and see if the thing functions (ejects) reliably.
Have fun hunting. Remember that you are there for the joy of it. If you bring back a deer, great, if not, you had a day in the woods.
As you can see: ask 10 hunters, get 11 opinions 😀
But whatever round you choose – don’t cheap out on the ammunition. Most problems with meat destruction or inadequate performance comes from cheap ammunition – not that there is anything wrong with the venerable semi jacketed soft point BUT these rounds tend to fragment too heavy in fast calibers and in moderate calibers the performance varies wildly.
No need to buy RWS for $100 a box but something like Remington Core-Lockt, Federal Fusion or any other bonded (the copper jacket and lead core are “soldered” together) offers better penetration and more consistent performance.
Under normal circumstances a box of these rounds would retail for about $25-$40.
Around here most use the .308, followed by the .30-06, of course the 8x57IS and 7×64 (the last two also in their respective rimmed versions 8x57IRS and 7x65R).
These rounds are far from overkill and, with the right bullets, are suitable for anything with 15-150kg field dressed weight.
And what do I use? Two different .338 rounds (.338 Federal and .338 Marlin Express) both with speeds like a 8×57 or .308 with the energy of a .30-06. Drops deer and hogs without excessive meat destruction (depending on shot placement).
IMHO bullet selection is more important than the caliber, that’s why I recommend the .308 – there’S no round with a broader selection of fabric ammunition. Period.
You can also get a AR10 in the same caliber *wink wink*.
Add in another vote for “anything but the 7.62×39” for hunting, unless you have a loading setup for assembling decent ammo with proper hunting bullets.
As a short to medium range antipersonnel round in a semi auto fighting rifle, it is adequate. As a hunting round, absent a good expanding bullet… There are many rounds that equal it at minimum and usually exceed it.
Before grabbing a 7.62z39 bolt action for a hunt, I would look first for a .243, 6mm Rem, one of the various flavors of 6.5, .270, 7mm, .30-30, .308, .30-06, the list goes on and on. At short ranges, I wouldn’t even exclude “pistol” caliber lever actions in .357 or .44 Magnum. Just SOMETHING the industry standard for which is to load expanding bullets in the available ammunition.
Unless you also intend to take the rifle out west for elk and the large bears, I would dispense with the belted magnum rifle rounds (even there, my late grandfather used .30-06 exclusively, even for elk, and with far more success than others who had uber-blitzen-whompers, as he KNEW his rifle and could place shots with uncanny accuracy and boring reliability using it).
If softpoint expanding ammunition was more readily available for the x39, I wouldn’t have the objection, but most of what you are likely to find in that caliber are non-expanding HP and FMJ.
as Boris said…
it’s just Boris
OCTOBER 11, 2021 AT 9:12 AM
May I suggest determining the following in order?
Reason (e.g. what you’re hunting)
Range
Round, and then
Rifle.
What are you going to do with the rifle? Hunting/plinking or primarily hunting?
Since the 7.62×39 is an intermediate round your hunting range will be along the line of 300 yds max because of energy and trajectory considerations.
And you will be limited to deer size game and smaller. But your plinking will be much less costly…
If you don’t plan on doing much plinking and want to take bigger game somewhere down the line then a full size cartridge is a better choice ( 270, 308,30-06,7 mag)..( or you don’t want to end up with a nickname of Comrade or Putin’s Bitch.I got tagged with these when I showed up at an AR march with a rifle in the ruski round)
More energy, better trajectory, more bullet selections..All of the mentioned items come at a higher price per round.
If you want to do some plinking, learn to reload , or find a friend you really trust.
The Ruger in 7.62×39 fits the hunting/plinking model very well. It is an inexpensive, accurate rifle that will do well in the hunting category when fed hunting ammo. For plinking buy the cheapest steel case Russian ammo and blast away. Just understand that the Russian stuff is durty to say the least.
In haste…
I use a Ruger American Predator in .308Win with an 18-inch barrel for all my hunting in Europe: roe deer, red deer, fox, hare and boar. Rifle is unbeatable value for +/- 500USD. Short, light, handy, reliable and super accurate. Mine likes Winchester X-pert 180grain SilverTip or PowerPoint rounds. Rifle comes threaded for a moderator and with scope bases attached. Add a Japanese-made Vixen 1.5-6×42 30mm-tube scope and some simple Weaver rings, and you have a super capable all-round hunting rifle for well under 1000 bucks. Use the remainder to get a matching Timney trigger for an even nicer experience.
I have many hunting rifles, including much more expensive ones, but this is the kit for which I reach on my way to the field. Spend ten minutes with a razor blade and fine sandpaper smoothing the parting line on the plastic rifle stock, and get yourself a matching green Kodiak Air sling from Limbsaver.com (the archery and firearms slings are the same, get whichever is cheaper). You can thank me later.
About 7.62×39. Decent short-to-medium range hunting cartridge, especially if you want it in a short, handy rifle. Main practical limitation is getting hold of accurate hunting ammunition loaded with hunting projectiles (not full-jacketed bullets), unless you set up to roll your own, which is what I do. My preference is for the CZ 527 carbine (I have two) with a tidy scope, but a Ruger would doubtless be fine too.
Whatever you choose, enjoy and happy hunting! Keep up the good work.