Headline:
10mm Glock ‘fully functional’ in fatal grizzly attack
You need to read the article, but let’s be generous and say mistakes were committed. Deadly mistakes.
OSHA also said in a “fatal alert” following the death of Martin Outfitters’ guide Mark Uptain, that the company should “evaluate its operating procedures for bear country.” OSHA is investigating Uptain’s death following an attack by a grizzly and her cub that also injured bow-hunting client Corey Chubon.
During a brief but deadly melee on the slopes of Terrace Mountain, six air miles from the trailhead in the Teton Wilderness of the Bridger-Teton National Forest, a mother grizzly charged the pair as they field dressed a bull elk, according to information from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department and OSHA.
Mama Grizzly bear never has good news for you. I am a city boy and I know that.
Uptain’s 10mm Glock semi-automatic pistol was with a pack and shirt a short distance away, and Chubon’s bear spray was in a pack, the state agencies said. The guide was carrying his bear spray and used it before he died — but not, investigators believe, before sustaining mortal injuries
It does not matter if the gun my have been a .454 Casull with lasers and radar: If it s not with you, you might as well be doing pew-pew sounds. And once again I state that I refuse to put my life and limb on the supposed effects of a condiment.
The bear hit Uptain as Chubon went for the pistol. “He said he had [the Glock],” Hovinga told WyoFile. “He had a hard time trying to find a clear shot.”
Chubon tried to shoot the bear, Hovinga said. “He grabbed [the pistol], was unable to make it fire,” Hovinga said. “There was not a round in the chamber, so the gun was empty. He couldn’t make the gun work.” (Bold is mine)
Do I have to point out (once again) the futility of Condition Three?
I am nt a hunter (too lazy) and I understand that there are people who take game with a 10mm without problems if the proper round is used. But for Grizzly country, I think you need to go baseline with a .44 Magnum and up.
Although I do believe the solution lies on the Non-Shotguns like The Mossberg Shockwave and the Remington Tac-14. I o back to what I saw in an episode of Alaska State Troopers when there was a report of a Grizzly in a suburb. They did not go investigate with pistols drawn or an AR15: They went with 12 gauge loaded with slugs.
But what do I know… I am a city boy.
Lots of online discussion of appropriate arming. 10 mm not often mentioned. My Marlin Guide Gun with 405 grain 45 caliber bullets is a frequent vote getter. So is a 12 gauge with slugs.
Generally when bear defense is discussed, the philosophy is larger holes are better than smaller holes. So, large revolver calibers are generally favored.
I am seriously rethinking that.
During a period of elevated stress, misses are to be expected. With a potential 20% hit percentage, that means the large caliber (five or six rounds) leaves a very small margin for error. The one shot you are likely to get on target better disable or kill the attacking bear.
On the other hand, with a 15+1 doublestack 10mm, 20% hit percentage means three to four smaller holes.
One big hole, versus three to four smaller holes.
And, anything is better than nothing. If someone tells you to leave your 9mm at home, they are endangering you with their bias.
OK, I live in bear country, which…. means absolutely NOTHING when it comes to being a bear expert, etc…
But. I have seen plenty of people hiking through bear country with their bear spray hanging from a carabiner on the back of their pack. Yep. Not only does the ‘biner require two actions to get the spray into a ready condition, it is in an inaccessible location.
Yes, I carry bear spray. it is in a holster, cross body draw, on the belt of my backpack. It is a single draw to ready, safety pulled, pointing at the animal movement, and I have practiced it extensively.
I also carry a bear spray that sends out some solids as well. Currently, those solids are six rounds of .454 Casull in a Ruger Super Redhawk. I get six chances to send a strong “F-You!” down range at any attacking wildlife.
And, I am rethinking my choice in anti-wildlife guns as well. I believe I will start carrying a 10mm (15+1) next season. In a period of elevated stress, I am hoping a 20% hit ratio will be good. With a 20% strike ratio, that means three to four hits (potentially.) Instead of one big F-You, I have the potential of three (possibly four) strongly worded “go screw yourself” Four small holes versus one large one.
Finally, the shotgun with slugs is probably the best choice, if you are willing to carry the extra weight. Granted, it is not terribly accurate at distance, but if you shoot a bear from hundreds of feet away, is ceases to be a defense of life and property situation. And, a 1oz. slug hitting the bear (or moose) at close to the speed of sound is going to hurt a LOT more than any handgun caliber round.
However, if you are going to be walking around with the shotgun in a sling on your back, what is the benefit? Do you really think a bear charging you at 35MPH is going to stop and wait for you to get the gun out? No. If you cannot grab it quickly, with one hand, after you have been knocked to the ground, you might as well just play dead.
One Alaska guide has gone with the HK45 with Lehai Extreme penetratior .45 Super as a sidearm, and a Beretta 1301 with slugs for main.
As long as the Beretta was in his hands in bear country, I fully support that configuration.
Was a bit afraid when you mentioned the Lehigh ammo, as the stuff I am familiar with from them is mostly hollow point, expanding. Great for smaller predators, but bears have way too thick skins/fat/muscles. Anything that expands generally never makes it to the vitals. Like what I am seeing with the Extreme Penetrators though.
Everything you said is correct, but there is one more part.
I have worked with professional hunters (but am not one myself). I did go on safari with my dad.
I was told that when field dressing game, one person should ALWAYS been on lookout. In Alaska for Bear. In Africa for Lions or Hyena. One pair of eyes should always be searching for the thing that wants to take your kill away from you.
Also, this is why you never hunt alone where man eating predators live.
Nice. Yesterday some moron on fb stated he never carries a round in the chamber sparking the chest thumpers to argue for and against multiple times An experienced guide who leaves his gun un chambered and out of reach………. brilliant.
BTW- you dont hunt because you “lazy”, you re just not hungry….
When we were hiking in Alaska, our guides had 12ga slugs, 7mm magnum, 300winmag, and the handgun I saw was a 500 s&w.
There is no such thing as overkill when Grizzlies are involved