I have been mentally replaying a part of the video where Antifa had chase vehicles and trapped a driver in L.A. The driver had his window cracked down enough for one of the “peaceful protesters” reach inside and probably grabbed him.
We are presented with a problem: I believe that a simple grab-push-pull does not rise to the use of deadly force. In fact I think it would be tough to sell in certain “less advanced” localities. Same goes for a knife whose use definitely would be characterized as grave bodily harm, at least in my opinion. Pepper spray inside the vehicle? No go for obvious reasons. So we are left only with something that can change minds through pain, produce the minimal amount of pain and create the least amount of damage. An impact weapon.
This impact weapon has to be small enough to be easily manipulated inside the vehicle (think swinging and hitting the roof) yet have enough heft to be effective. My mind went straight for a slapjack or blackjacks as they are the right size and weight to be effective, but then again not all jurisdictions may approve of you owning one of those tools. Then I went thinking rebar or similar, but I was not convinced. What about a hammer? What about a small hammer?
I searched at the Big Box Hardware store websites and I found a couple of small hammers that kinda sorta were close at what I wanted. Then, from the back of my brain, a neuron waking up from a long nap came forward and asked “How about a meant tenderizer?”
Bingo!
Not 5 minutes and from the Wally World site, I found the perfect vehicular mace: All steel 10.5 inches long, 13 ounces in weight and I do believe that no matter what side makes impact in the arm or hand, the subject is bound to feel the invitation to leave convincingly.
The price? Under $6. I don’t think there is anything in the defensive world that is that affordable. It feels solid and delivers a punch. I haven’t figured out where I am going to keep it, but I know it has to be easy to reach and secure in case of impacts and I am going to wrap the handle with some tennis racket tape I happen to have just to get better purchase.
The following I just share for purely informative purposes since I am not an expert.
From Police Magazine: Gaining Compliance with Targeted Pressure.
Radial Nerve (forearm)—Strike this point with a hammer fist, using the forearm to strike that of the arrestee midway up the arm toward the elbow. This technique is effective for when the resistive suspect is holding onto an object or grabbing hold of an officer’s wrist. A strike to the radial nerve is likely to cause the resistive suspect to let go of what he or she is holding. You or your backup officers can then gain control of the suspect with other techniques.
How about a big pair of vice grips? Set the jaws close and when they reach into the window -CLAMP- then smack em with the hammer. Ink pen in the eye. Another pair vice grips on the nose. If they chasin you on a bike knock em over. Best thing- stay outta these areas period.
One of those car rescue hammers would also work in this situation. They’re cheap (about $15), come with a mount, and don’t look like you are “asking for trouble”.
https://www.amazon.com/Lifehammer-Brand-Safety-Hammer-Netherlands/dp/B000BN3A4Y/ref=pd_lpo_263_t_0/133-2631067-9077061?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000BN3A4Y&pd_rd_r=2118e8d4-fbdd-46d6-a421-318e709848d6&pd_rd_w=jZL5x&pd_rd_wg=p6clr&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=7ANDACMKRJ3JNYQVCVY4&psc=1&refRID=7ANDACMKRJ3JNYQVCVY4
I was always forgetting to buy one…. What is the difference between your recommendation and Amazon’s one? Just trying to understand the tool.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=vp_m_pb_TIER1_cml_lp_B000BN3A4Y_pd?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B073J92G1J&pd_rd_w=cqDa4&pf_rd_p=785db917-35c9-4e08-a5f2-1b2998b0997b&pf_rd_r=9e574051-8c4b-4b81-b20f-b13078e65334&pd_rd_wg=C5RG6&pd_rd_r=9e574051-8c4b-4b81-b20f-b13078e65334
I checked it out and I saw 2 problems with it (at least for me): It is light at only 4.8 ounces and it needs to be “aimed” for a rightful impact as in you need to make sure you are hitting with the metal heads.
The meat tenderizer is the closest thing to a mace and it almost does not matter how you garb it, the head is massive enough to induce pain.
At least that is how I see and felt it.
I like the plausible deniability of a window breaker. It’s always a useful tool to have in your car so you can reasonably claim you didn’t posses it for use as a weapon.
That said, I wound’t go for the radial arm. I’m not a nice person. I can tell you from experience in the orthopedic industry, it is almost impossible to rebuild a metacarpal joint. I’d be interested in smashing the hand, especially the knuckles. Not just will that hurt like a bastard, you will permanently cripple the hand. I want that SOB to spend every day of the rest of his life having to wipe his ass with his other hand and regretting the decision he made.
I’d just leave the Walmart tag hanging off the meat tenderizer. If they ask, you bought it a while ago for the kitchen, and it happened to still be sitting in your car. You found it under the seat earlier when you were looking for a pen you dropped; it happened to be on the passenger seat when the armed and violent men surrounded you and started smashing your windows and reached into the car to grab you. You picked up the first item that came to hand and struck out it panic. It still has the price tag on it; who carries a Walmart meat tenderizer with the Mainstays brand tag still hanging off of it? It would be impossible to prove. Although I think either would work. And the hammer, as you say, has a dash mount that comes with it, which would be very useful. Come to think of it, a person could just claim they always carried a meat tenderizer in the car because they have a phobia about drowning trapped inside of a car.
There are some meaner ones out there.
https://www.offgridtools.com/products/survival-axe
Spendy but a professional firefighter’s tool:
https://www.edarley.com/biel-fire-axe-tool/
Again, you can always say “I have this in my car all the time in case I get in a wreck and have to self rescue.” Which is true and a good idea.
How about a simple Boy Scout hatchet?
Kubaton or tactical pen to the radial nerve. I think you will generate as much force in close confines and have a couple more options for applying pressure. Easier to carry, too.
All welcome suggestions
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61un7KvR%2B5L._AC_SL1002_.jpg
A bit more expensive than other suggestions, but it has other uses as well. Plus, I already have one.
https://www.batteryjunction.com/fenix-tk16-xml2-u2.html
Meh. I bought a blackjack. I’ll take my chances. Kubaton is a good idea though.
I think the logic of “looking for trouble” will still apply to a meat tenderizer. “That’s an odd thing to keep in your car, Mr. GFZ”. I think it’s a matter of jurisdiction.
“Were you looking for trouble carrying this weapon Mr?”
Nope just preparing for trouble to find me. It has a habit of doing that these days.
Like I said above, just leave the tag on it. You just bought it recently (or any length of time ago). It fell under the seat, you just happened to find it earlier. Hell, give them the exact date you bought it, in case they really, really want to go back and review the surveillance footage to see if you are lying. Keep the receipt. It disappeared, and you just found it earlier under the driver’s seat and had placed in in the passenger’s seat to bring into the house when you got home. I think taping the handle up would kind of ruin that though. But you could still claim it was a ersatz rescue hammer for your fear of being trapped in a sinking car. Why pay $25 for a “real” hammer when this $5 meat tenderizer will break the windows just as easily?
This suddenly brought back the memories of my youth, with me speedwalking to the bus stop clutching the keys in my hand, with a voluminous steel key fob facing out from the fist…
First the shortages, then weapon improvisation so as to not be arrested by the police… I really do not want to live again through what followed next…
A roll of quarters kept in the center console cup holder probably wouldn’t attract any ire from investigators (especially if you live in an area where toll roads and/or parking meters are normal) and a full roll of quarters weighs half a pound.
Held firmly in the fist, it’ll add a bit of mass and thus kinetic energy, to strikes you might have to make.
Obviously not a first choice for a weapon, but inconspicuous enough to keep within arms reach and hopefully surprising enough to your assailant(s) that you can get away.
I miss payphone, parking meters, and arcades. Nothing like $25 worth of quarters in a large Crown Royal bag (the quintessential redneck designer bag).
Totally innocuous until you swung it like a slapjack.
That looks like a good old fashioned meat tenderizer.
After discussing this with some friends, we came to the conclusion that the best tool would be a lug wrench from a jap car, like a Toyota. About a foot long before the bend, got a good pointy/stabby bit, and totally plausible to have.
How about an old fashioned 3 cell Maglite?, plenty of wallop, often cheap in thrift stores and perfectly innocent. The tool department also has good options, breaker bars or wrenches have always looked like good expedient melee weapons. Also a truckers tire club
“We are presented with a problem: I believe that a simple grab-push-pull does not rise to the use of deadly force”
Depends on the jurisdiction. I’m aware of a case in Ohio where a guy was not charged with shooting a man who just did the “grab-push-pull” level of attack.
There are coin pouch blackjacks that probably be fine in most places. https://www.amazon.com/VIPERADE-Slapjack-Leather-Boston-Change/dp/B087F6CGY7/ref=asc_df_B087F6CGY7/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459701690345&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7830641870159301919&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9024165&hvtargid=pla-939818068275&psc=1
Also semi-truck tire thumpers aren’t much different from old english billy clubs and probably would be accepted in a truck or car.
Your premise that a simple grab/push/pull does not rise to the level of deadly force is incorrect. If you are in your vehicle and a person attempts to forcibly enter that vehicle or attempts to remove you from that vehicle, the law in Florida states that you are presumed to be reasonably in fear of death or great bodily harm.
Let’s review the law here:
776.013 (2) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using or threatening to use defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used or threatened was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
In short: If a person reaches into my car, there is a HIGH probability that they will be shot. There is a reason why I have a dashcam.
See tomorrow’s follow up post
Why not a knife? What am I missing about this, that a basic knife (or even a basic utility knife), jammed repeatedly through the arm or hand or wrist wouldn’t accomplish the same goal?
I think if someone managed to get an arm into my car, and it suddenly developed multiple deep lacerations, they’d want to rethink that decision and un-ass the area in a hurry.
I already have a knife. Several actually. I carry at least one every day. And it is accessible when I am sitting in the car.
I think the idea is to avoid using anything that could be construed as a deadly weapon. That’s a desirable goal when you’re living in states like CA that don’t honor basic human rights such as self defense.
Because it gets blood all over ME and my car…….. Impact implements tend to not do that.
Blood, indeed. And, worse, bloodborne cooties.
Bloodborne pathogens are The Worst!
See? This is why you can take medical people anywhere… 😀
(blush) Aw, shucks! Tenkewberrymuch!
What are you missing? I’d say the first paragraph:
“We are presented with a problem: I believe that a simple grab-push-pull does not rise to the use of deadly force. In fact I think it would be tough to sell in certain “less advanced” localities. Same goes for a knife whose use definitely would be characterized as grave bodily harm, at least in my opinion. Pepper spray inside the vehicle? No go for obvious reasons. So we are left only with something that can change minds through pain, produce the minimal amount of pain and create the least amount of damage. An impact weapon.”
A lethal weapon cannot be used to stop a less than lethal assault. You can’t shoot a guy for shoving you, and you can’t stab him for reaching into your car and grabbing you. Not in many states anyway.
Yeah, I wasn’t missing that. I was missing how, if you live in an area that will prosecute you no matter what you use, and take the side of the folks of doing the actual attacking, why you should limit your response by specifically eliminating the knife.
The blood and blood borne pathogen response makes more sense than “you can’t use the knife because it is lethal force” argument. Not saying your argument is not valid, just saying that it didn’t/doesn’t compute, considering the presented situation.
If you accomplish the same thing without bloodletting, there is less risk spending times answering questions with a lawyer to your side.
Understand that there will be a crowd of assholes preparing to swear you reached outside the vehicle, pulled the poor Pantifa guy inside and stabbed him.
I like the vice grips. An ice pick would work, hornet spray, instant start plumbing torch, harbor freight sells a smallish dead blow hammer, battery powered nail gun. Just thinking out loud
Everybody is a comedian. 😀
don’t you guys remember? You never, ever, make a statement or answer questions with the police. You say, “I’m not going to answer any questions. I want my lawyer. ” and then shut up and don’t say a word.
Thus, you don’t have to come up with a witty reason as to why you have a hatchet in your front seat.
Just sayin…
Some of these suggestions are such silliness.
If someone reaches into my vehicle, I hold onto the arm, and either slam on the accelerator or shift into reverse and slam on the accelerator. Don’t let go until it’s impossible for them to remain on their feet. For bonus points, maybe sideswipe a vehicle to add a crushed pelvis.
Gee, officer, I was afraid for my life that I accidentally hit the gas pedal…
Just thought of this one. Get a couple of old D&D books and character sheets and a nice leather dice bag. Fill said dice bag with a couple of the big 50 or 75mm solid brass D20s and assorted smaller metal dice.
Now you are ready to play any impromptu scenario, including ones where you are repelling boarders!
Roll initiative bitch!