Where a Redneck Jew, a Hispanic Catholic, and a Computer Geek write about Gun Rights, Self Defense and whatever else we can think about.
Pope John Paul II talks with Mehmet Agca, the man who tried to assassinate him, in an Italian prison, 1983. After these many years, this photo never fails to make me believe in good people. I truly believe Karol Józef Wojtyła is the best Pope we had in my lifetime.
Semi-retired like Vito Corleone before the heart attack. Consiglieri to J.Kb and AWA. I lived in a Gun Control Paradise: It sucked and got people killed. I do believe that Freedom scares the political elites.
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Let me open by saying I respect Miguel’s faith.
I was raised in a very devoutly Catholic family. I left the faith over other matters (mostly regarding Galileo-like issues), but I still respect the beliefs of those who hold them.
But I have to ask: did John Paul II know about pedophilia in the clergy?
Anyone can have great shining moments in his or her life and my intent is not to take that away. And JPII did much to restore and bolster the faith. But … Did he ignore the evil preying on the most vulnerable of his flock, from within the ranks of the clergy? If so, he may have been a great man, but whether he was a good one is a different question.
One thing people has to know is that the Pope deals with the doctrine of the Catholic Church and does not deal with the day to day operations of the Church, nor controls what the local Parishes do. That is the job of the Bishops. What was kept or told to the John Paul II is unknown, but I am betting they did not wanted him to know much nor wanted it spread in Rome.
Yes, the Pope is generally not involved in day-to-day matters as such. I certainly agree that the Church hierarchy did, and does, not want the extent of the rot known, so they might not have told him.
Consider, however, that generally in a Pope’s career he is first a priest, then a bishop, then a cardinal, and only then is elected to the office. Any pope in recent times will have had experience in the “operations” side of things. Perhaps he did rise to that office and never had to deal with “those” clergy and the families impacted by them, and never had discussions with other bishops and cardinals about how best to deal with that problem.
I don’t know the answer. But just with any politician, and let’s make no mistake, the Pope is a political office as much as an ecclesiastical one; how high can one rise and not have an inkling of “how things are done” after rising through the ranks?
Regardless, though. I do take your original point; moments of grace and beauty may be found no matter the state of the participants’ souls. And every soul has the possibility of redemption.
I suspect you’re right. The current pope is a different kettle of fish entirely (in every way imaginable).
Unfortunately, it seems that Johannes Paul II did ignore the kiddy-diddling in the church. It was known to him that there were instances and it was known to him that some Bishops did abuse their power.
For all his greatness that was a point were he put the church as an organization over the faith.
Benedikt XVI tried to fight it and lost, he was to old and frail.
And socialist pope can burn in hell.
Why do people keep believing the Pope has dictatorial powers? Again, he deals with doctrine. Bishops runs operations. The Catholic church is the original franchise operation.
Because he LITERALLY has dictorial powers.
protestas suprema
The pope can issue declarations binding on all of Christendom, with the penalty for disobedience being anathema (aka excommunication).
Here are the four conditions for an ex cathedra (infallable) declaration from a Pope:
– he must be speaking as a teacher to the world;
– he must be defining a doctrine of faith or morals;
– he must make clear his intentions to speak ex cathedra, either directly or indirectly; and
– he must attach anathama (e.g. hope of salvation) to the decree.
Such declarations aren’t used lightly and they aren’t used often. Arguably the last time it was used was by JPII, when he declared in 1994 that the Church had no authority to ordain women. The time before that was 1950, when the assumption of Mary into heaven was enshrined in dogma. (I’m not arguing that these were proper or not, it’s just to illustrate that such declarations are generational things.)
That said, any pope, if moved by the Holy Spirit, could give an ex cathedra declaration against pedophilia, declaring it a mortal sin and an immediate expulsion from the Church, no matter the rank or station of the offender; and calling on all with knowledge of offenders to expose them, or join them in their fate for staying quiet.
No pope has done so.
Understand, I’m not saying the Catholic Church is infallable and perfect; nor am I saying it is beyond salvation. What I am saying is, in my estimation, its focus has strayed over the past two thousand years, to the point where protecting itself has become more important, implicitly if not explicitly, than protecting its flock. That is, literally, the Pope’s job to fix.
While not of the Catholic faith and being younger, what I know of Pope John Paul II put him on a level above any pope since. Even many within my protestant/evangelical circle respected him and held him in high regard. I’ve not seen that with either of the popes since him.
As for not knowing about the crap the clergy was doing to kids in the parishes, I can certainly find it plausible that the information was 100% hidden from the Pope. And I find it plausible that he was kept completely in the dark by the “middle management” underneath him. Because I’ve experienced it in a much smaller organization (large-ish national company with waaaaayyyyyy too much middle management, nowhere near the size of the worldwide operations of the Catholic Church).
I was tapped to be a Program/Project Manager on a project that was 18 months behind schedule. The VP over me said that all I needed to do was a couple check the box activities and send the project out the door to the warehouse to go to the customers. Every time I corrected one thing, two more popped up. I documented all of it and when I had to present to the CEO about the status of the program, he asked why everything was so far behind and not recovering. I went through all the troubles the program was having from no fixtures/procedures to assemble the product to material/process issues that should have been discovered before I ever took over. His response: “Why is this the first I am hearing about this?:
I was in over my head and ended up being the one that went down with the ship. So when I hear about middle management hiding crap from the big bosses, I 100% believe that is a plausible explanation.