I am sure that many a gun owner that Carries Concealed (or Open) has taken the time to analyze and come up with a strategy dealing with a situation like the one with the Miami Zombie. To say that we will face a case just-like-that would be pushing it but, what if we face somebody who is so whacked out in drugs that he will simply not feel pain, will not behave rational and has no problem having you for lunch? Shots to the pelvic area to stop an advancing critter like that are first option or shots to the brain housing assembly to disrupt the main control system. As nasty as the story is, it is now in our filing system under “This kind of thing happens, don’t freak out, respond appropriately.”
Next I went to the next mental inquiry: What would I do if I am not the intended victim, none of my loved ones are the intended victim and I am a passerby? How would I tackle the situation? This is a well defined case as no normal & innocent people go eating other people’s faces. There is a well defined bad guy in need of stopping as any reasonable person would agree.
Or would they?
An image popped into my mind: Rev. Al Sharpton on TV demanding justice for the poor face-eating bastard. Four months ago, the thought of letting somebody have his face become part of somebody’s diet would not even cross my mind. But after the Martin/Zimmerman media boondoggle and saying to myself “Of course I would intervene!” my brain had a Full Stop/Back The Truck Up moment. Do I want to risk peace of mind, loss of freedom, hard earned monies, Family disrupted and see life as I knew it disappear on the chance some Media Hungry jackass passing himself as a Civil Rights Defender feels that demonizing me is good for his business?
…..
As much as my morals say “Yes asshole, if you see a case so clear in front of you, it is your moral imperative to act and defend a life in jeopardy.” But at the same time I have a family that depends on me and an very elderly mother that might die if subjected to a Martin/Zimmerman media frenzy and that would be on my head too.
I can’t come up with an answer yet. Maybe I’ll never will.
And you may want to give this idea a very deep thought.
To paraphrase Insp. Callahan “When I see a naked man eating another person’s face, I assume he’s not out collecting for the Red Cross.”
It is one thing to go to bat for a teenager during a questionable shoot. Naked, face eating zombie- I doubt Al and Jessie are going to try to stand up for the guy.
Is the man whose face is being eaten still alive? If he is, Shoot the eater and know you did the right thing regardless of what some one else says. If he’s dead, call 911. (call 911 either way)
If you are unfortunate enough to become involved in such an incident,,,,tell me HOW you know who is who. I mean two idiots , one of which is naked, and in a split second you are supposed to realize who is good and who is bad, I don’t think so!!
I think the strips of the other guys face hanging out of the mouth may be a bit of a clue.
Six months ago, anybody who had an inkling about the Zimmeramn case was sure it was straight up self defense. No sweat, nobody in his/her right mind would say otherwise. Right?
Umm…Miguel, six months ago there was no shooting.
It was 2-26-12
Miguel,
I have thought about this quite a bit lately and believe that I would intervene personally after I had exhausted all the other avenues of action.
Just like I would an any other situation.
I wouldn’t immediately jump in the water to save someone from drowning if there was a life guard on the scene. I wouldn’t rush into a building on fire if I thought the fire department could get there in time.
But I would rush into traffic to save a toddler who walked into a busy street. I would physically intervene to stop a rape in progress.
Why should our actions be any different because we are armed?
We have the same options plus one or more that every other citizen has. We can alert the police, we can galvanize a group response. We can act physically to keep someone from harm. Even those without firearms can employ force — up to deadly force in situations. Those of us who are armed simply can employ it more effectively and from a greater distance.
I can understand your concern about the legal/social aspects of getting involved but what about our responsibility to do so?
Doesn’t ever person who is capable of action have a responsibility to do what they can to stop evil?
I think we do. And for too long we’ve let a portion of society tell is we shouldn’t. That we shouldn’t stop actions that cross a clear moral/ethical/legal boundary and if eating the face off a person doesn’t cross that boundary, nothing does.
All good points, but the tough thing about defending a stranger is that you may not be privy to all the information. If it is not a loved one you are protecting, or self-protection where you know exactly what you did to get there, then there is an element of doubt. Even a naked man with a chunk of another man’s face in his mouth could be a rape victim who fought back and turned things around (obviously that is not what happened in this case). I would not hesitate when my life or the life of a loved one is on the line- but if it is the life of a stranger, I’m going to hesitate. When I am done hesitating- I am going to hesitate some more. That is just the way it has to be in a sue-happy world that doesn’t look kindly on good samaritans who made the wrong choice.
TS,
You are absolutely right about not being sure of who is the victim and who is the aggressor.
That said, I doubt many – if any – would start off shooting. A force continuum applies to that situation just as surely as it does in self defense.
When I am done hesitating- I am going to hesitate some more. That is just the way it has to be in a sue-happy world that doesn’t look kindly on good samaritans who made the wrong choice.
And that is the entire point of my debate. How do we change that? How do we especially the gun owners/carriers tell society we are done being sued for trying to do the right thing?
Well first we have to start doing the right thing. One of the points that struck me about the Zimmerman/Martin case was how NO ONE physically intervened.
Some of the witnesses state (now) they suspected a youth of being assaulted and not one of them went out and tried to put an end to it physically. Not one with a broom stick, a baseball bat, a pistol or a shotgun stepped up and tried to stop a crime.
If we gun owners don’t step up, then it will soon become the expectation that NO one steps up. And then it will be the norm that ONLY the police can defend a person from a thug.
We are already partly there.
I understand the idea of hesitating to be normal. I think we need to separate out the idea of getting all the information (Necessary!) and being afraid of acting because of a law suit.
I think what would I want a bystander to do if it my son/daughter/wife having their face chewed up. I think what would I want some bystander to do if some punk was on top of me swinging fists MMA style.
And I wonder if both of those thugs would be alive today if people had stepped up sooner.
I am not advocating that you do nothing, but recent events do give you a “pause.”
The problem begins when you accumulate enough of these pauses to make you ineffective enough where you are in danger. Sometimes you cannot afford to think because it you do, it will kill you.
And nobody knows for sure how are we gonna act when the SHTF and what we don’t need is ancillary racial/political/media crap screwing with your decision making process.
Remember that the Martin case resonates in a very special way to the black community. The way IT HAS BEEN INITALLY PRESENTED IN THE MEDIA- overzealous white watchman shoots black kid for “Walking While Black” struck a chord with many black folks. Many could either see themselves or a family member in that situation. Many too have living memories of when a law officer could shoot down a black man, make a bogus claim of self defense, and get off scott free.
Because it is an issue that resonated so much, the usual suspects are pushing it in order to get out votes for Obama. In other words, a bit of a perfect storm in the life of Mr. Zimmerman.
However, not ever self defense shooting is going to have the same bad ending, and most do not.
If you start second guessing yourselves now, it’s time to put the pistol away. A moment of hesitation thinking about “Will I be the next George Zimmerman” is a moment that your life or someone elses might go from being in danger, to being snuffed out.
An attack where someone is eating someone else’s face is without doubt an attack of deadly proportion. Bites can be fatal, face eating also can be fatal.
A lot of people i know have criticized the police for shooting an unarmed naked man, but lets face it, it took four rounds to put him down, and being eaten by a deranged person who wont listen to reason, isn’t much different than being eaten by a bear with a bad disposition.
The whole idea is to “second guess” oneself in the comfort of one’s home and make a decision. Again, this is not from the point of view of being attacked where any doubt is erased by the attacker but as a passerby standpoint. Do I intervene or not? Am I to be just a witness or get in the melee knowing it can come back to haunt me?
Mmm…I don’t know Miguel. Although as fed up as I am…
My first and only thought in regards to sharpton, jackson and their ilk is…Okay so you are an agent provocateur who has come to MY city, MY town, MY neighborhood, to stir up shit against me, advocate mob violence if you don’t get your way and [in the case of the black panthers] offered a reward for me dead or alive…that’s a threat. I’m going to honor the threat, it won’t be over quickly and you won’t enjoy it.
If it was only them, I wouldn’t give a hoot either. But it is the pressure they inflict on local Pols that then bend over and turn the power of the State on you that gives me pause.
Of course, that brings unintended consequences on itself. When a case where a civilian could intervene, didn’t and gets asked why, he’ll just have to point out that the thought of being falsely accused by race/political baiters made the decision of doing nothing easy.