Two gentlemen OC and walking down the street.
Yes, Minnesota is an Open Carry State and the gentlemen were legally right and free to carry. Unfortunately, that was not the strategic thing to do.
“But Miguel! The cops are wrong! They should have not confiscated their weapons!”
Do you remember the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans? Even though it was illegal, orders were issued to confiscate guns.
And the aggrieved pair can take the cops to court and will probably win their case. But ladies and gents, we are in special and trying circumstances and if history teaches us anything about times like this is that common sense and the appreciation for the finest points of Constitutional Rights goes out the window. You must stop thinking like a graduate of the Facebook Law School and think realistically (tactically if you rather use the term.)
They were detained, weapons confiscated and then let go. What you have now is two unarmed folks having to walk back home and I hope they have back up long guns.
When the shit hits the fan (and in case you have not noticed, it has) posturing is not the best of strategies.
Hat Tip Mortar Girl
The only idiots are the cops here.
We should be defending these two rights, not calling them names. They did nothing wrong.
So, when is it okay to carry your gun?
When all is good and happy? When there is a riot in progress? When it’s something in the middle?
Rights, as has been mentioned before, are rights. If they can be shut down, denied or delayed at the whim of someone with a modicum of authority, they are privileges, not rights.
We can argue whether these two were choosing the brightest course of action when choosing to carry their guns. But from what I know and see, their rights were violated without cause and the actions of the police here are pretty much indefensible.
Just to clarify, let’s not conflate two issues.
Where these guys being smart? and
Where their rights violated?
Their rights were probably being violated. That will help them when they sue when it’s all over. Right now the cops don’t care about their rights. Also, their guns are probably going to grow legs and walk out of the evidence locker into some cops closet so they are doubly screwed.
Or into antifa’s hands when they sack the next police station.
I don’t have a good solution to the problem. I’m old, I’m fat and I don’t get around very well. I try to maintain a low profile and stay away from situations that may go sideways. That does not mean that I will let some asshole club me to death without a fight if I end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. I carry concealed for that reason (among others). If a mob starts gathering and threatens my home or neighborhood, then the long gun(s) comes out, a handgun just won’t cut it in that circumstance. Fortunately I live in an area where riots are very unlikely, and state and local governments are fairly gun friendly.
“guns are probably going to grow legs and walk out of the evidence locker into some cops closet”
A lot of that happened in NOLA after Katrina.
And it was a crime to see what happened when they stored thousands of firearms in piles in a storage container that leaked. The nice firearms grew legs and were lost. Others were held as evidence and required (multiple) court battles to get back. And the run of the mill firearms ended up in storage containers that leaked. After years in the sun and moisture, most were damaged to the point of being unusable.
If I remember correctly, the police didn’t have to “replace” the firearms they “accidentally” destroyed. Just return them.
Sort of reminds me of the guys that went to a military equipment auction. They got a great deal on a HMMV. They paid and were told to go out back to take delivery. They were asked if they had the tools to “demil” the vehicle, when they said no, they got to see an M60 drive over their newly purchased vehicle till it met “demil” standards. Then they were told they had an hour to load the “parts kit” and get it off post.
NOLA “demiled” a lot of firearms and then wanted their arses kissed when they returned the parts kits.
On the other side of it, in general, there is no standing to sue without being arrested or having your rights violated. You can’t sue on someone else’s behalf, or because the cops MIGHT arrest you if you do X.
Now that they have been arrested, they can sue.
So, we’re in the middle of a citywide emergency and everyone is on edge. What should we do? I know! Let’s wander down the public way open carrying long guns! And since one of us has a vest carrier, let’s wear that, too! It’s not like anyone will notice and call the cops on us, right?
Some people are their own worst enemies and have to learn the hard way that if you ask for trouble, you’ll probably get it.
How bad would it have to get in your neighborhood to decide to carry an AR if you had to go out? I hope that’s a question I never have to ponder for real, and I’m sorry that some folks have to today.
This is in the same category as “I don’t like what you say but I defend your right to say it.”
You might make the choice not to carry a long rifle openly on a walk to the corner grocery store (or wherever they were going). I would make the same choice; but then I have a CCW license in my home state, and a couple of different options for going out armed.
These people made a different choice. It might have been a poor decision … but making poor decisions in itself isn’t illegal, and I can understand the viewpoint that being outside with no self-defense tools in that part of the country is contraindicated. Perhaps they have no other gun they could carry concealed. Perhaps they wanted the most firepower they could carry. But that’s all beside the point.
Arresting them was both stupid (“Hey, let’s get our department sued!”) and illegal. A simple “Hey guys, would you mind leaving those home?” might have been a good first step…
It is a question I ask every time I go out of the house right now. I’m not to the point where I want to carry an AR when I’m out, but I am seriously considering making one into a truck gun. If only Miguel hadn’t convinced me it was a bad idea with out GOOD security for it.
Seriously, I wish I had a good, safe way to store my AR in my truck. It just doesn’t fit anywhere.
There is a very decent way to store it, but will cost you money
https://truckvault.com/
Beautiful option, way more than I can afford. If I could afford that, the collection we get a few more items.
Thanks for the pointer though.
If they were OCing handguns would be one thing. But they were OCing long guns in a city that has had riots. If it is that dangerous that you feel you need a long gun and a vest then I would question whether you have to be there. Not sure of the laws of Minnesota so I ask could they have carried their long guns in a discrete bag that would allow for fast access?
My personal opinion, as always could be wrong, is that people who go around carrying long guns “to make a point”, “get people used to seeing firearms” or a photo-op are publicity wh***s (females of negotiable virtue) and rather nasty ones at that.
As stated I could be wrong and I freely admit that there are times when someone has a good reason to carry a long gun uncased such as a hunter going to or returning from a hunt but until given further data I do not believe that either of these two gentlemen had such a reason.
Asbestos suit on, shields up.
They should’ve shot the police. This is why people hate police!
Look! An Antifa idiot graces our blog.