Video of an attack on a Jewish man in NYC:
I found disturbing footage of chair throwing & assault on Chassidic Jew Tue on Albany & Lincoln. Victim is uncomfortable reporting due to the discovery reform (attacker may know his identity). Same group assaulted someone later that night on Union Kingston. @NYPD77Pct @NYPD71Pct pic.twitter.com/f5jEAL5SkR
— Yaacov Behrman (@ChabadLubavitch) December 31, 2019
They hit him with a chair in the head. He keeps going after yelling at them. The attackers turn around and charge him and one punches him in the head.
IANAL and I’m not giving legal advice.
I’m saying (assuming that this happened not in NYC) that after being hit by a chair and having those same people charge at me from behind is the second my muzzle clears leather.
At that moment, it seems clear that someone who already assaulted you with an object wants to finish the job of severely hurting or killing you.
When your gun comes out you must be prepared and justified to shoot, but you don’t necessarily have to. If those thugs stopped and ran away at the sight of the gun, you saved yourself without firing a shot.
I’d still call the police and report everything that happened, just as I would for a defensive shoot, but then explain that as soon as I got my gun out they turned around a ran. Especially in this day and age where there are cameras everywhere. I think this video would be conclusive proof that the Jewish man felt an imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm, considering he had already been attacked once and they were coming back for a second blow.
I’m just glad that this man survived his punch to the head. This blog has documented many case where a single punch to the skull was fatal.
Well, being both old (65+) and disabled (now get out of my parking place), an attack on me is a felony. And if I fall, I have a great chance of sustaining a serious bodily injury. So if faced with 7 attackers I may have to ration the 10 shots in my Glock 26. But a gang attack would justify me in defending myself from the “diindn do nuftins”. The purpose is to stop an attack.
This is disturbing on so many levels.
First of all, no one should be hit by anything unless they are directly provoking the attack. (and walking in the vicinity of people who do not like you is not provoking an attack.)
Secondly, given the situation in NYC right now, the number of attacks, and the indifference of the Mayor’s office, I would have recommended that the strikee not have turned around and said, or done anything. In this particular situation, reacting was exactly what that band of punks wanted, and it escalated the situation.
However, it is absolutely unrealistic to expect someone who was just hit in the head by a folding camp chair to ignore it.
Taking a closer look at the video, it appears the asshat that threw the chair was at the back of the group. but the people who first started chasing after the victim were at the front. If they had no idea that their companion had thrown something at the victim, and the victim turns and says something insulting or provocative to them, they might decide he is the aggressor and give him the beat down that (they believe) he so richly deserves.
Hindsight is always 20/20, and this is no different. Instead of addressing the group, if the victim had directly confronted only the individual that threw the camp chair, the others might not have decided to give chase. On the other hand, the beating may have come quicker and been more severe.
“When your gun comes out you must be prepared and justified to shoot, but you don’t necessarily have to. If those thugs stopped and ran away at the sight of the gun, you saved yourself without firing a shot.”
I am going to ask everybody to make sure of the laws in your own particular state. Remember that not too long ago, the simple drawing of a firearm in Florida without shooting was considered assault with a deadly weapon by some prosecutors.
At a minimum, it can be considered brandishing in my state.
However, there is a clause in the law about reasonable fear of danger to life. The issue is that if you pull your gun during any kind of confrontation, it is by definition brandishing. It is only through a demonstration that the brandishing was in fact to save life or limb that the decision to acquit is made.
So is it more illegal in your state to “brandish” than actually to use deadly force against an attacker?
I would hope that in NH, where the law clearly authorizes deadly force against threat of death or severe bodily harm or rape or arson, would view brandishing as ok in any case where the actual use of deadly force is authorized. I haven’t studied the actual words; in past scans through the laws I haven’t run into the notion of brandishing at all.
You are right, and that’s why I always trepidatious about posting these types of things. There are no universal legal rules.
The Florida law seems to be a Catch-22, and brandishing is full of problems.
I get that drawing you gun and threatening people with it is illegal. In my opinion, it shouldn’t be under certain circumstances (e.g., Mike Strickland being stalked by Antifa), but it is.
Take this scenario:
“Officer, one of the guys in that group hit me in the head with a chair. I kept going but a couple of them charged me from behind. I was afraid they were were going jump be from behind and beat the hell out of me. I turned around and drew my gun but before I could take a shot they turned around and ran.”
If getting charged from behind by someone who already assaulted you with an object is not justification enough for a defensive shoot, and you have to wait for them to hit you a second time, you’re now injured or dead. Self defense is meaningless, you might as well be unarmed.
If they turn and run before you get a shot off, do you shoot them in the back to justify your fear? Because that’s murder.
If the point of self defense is to stop the immediate threat. If you shoot the bad guy and he goes down, even if he lives, the threat is stopped. It’s murder if you walk over to him and cap him in the skull.
So if the immediate threat is stopped before you get the shot off, what do you do? Just go to jail? We’re talking about a matter of 2 or 3 seconds.
There is no perfect answer. I know I am not a lawyer, but even among lawyers there is are disagreements.
It’s not pretty, but sometimes you have to be the one that makes case law.
And some prosecutors are just pieces of shit who are out to get you because they can.